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+--- Thread: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc.) (/showthread.php?tid=10234)
One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc.) - G.Irish - 04-01-2013
At the NY Auto Show Aston Martin had a couple of its turnkey Vantage GT4 race cars on display, presumably to drum up interest for the forthcoming American version of its spec GT4 series. With the impending arrival of the Lamborghini Gallardo Super Trofeo series next year as well, that means there will now be 4 rich guy spec supercar racing series in the US.
I can't help but to think that one or more of the new comers is going to fail miserably. I don't think there are that many rich guys dying to play racecar driver that aren't already racing because they couldn't race a spec Aston Martin or Lambo.
![[Image: _96C0862-sm.jpg]](http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/images/fz/_96C0862-sm.jpg)
Surely there's a market for a cheaper series
But then I got to thinking, there's probably a market out there for far less rich guys that would like to race a cool turnkey racecar. Like if there were a program where you buy an already race prepped racecar for maybe $30k and you can either maintain and transport it to the races yourself, or pay to have someone else handle all the logistics the way they do with Ferrari Challenge.
VW already kind of did this with the TDI Cup, but I have to admit I'm not gonna get off my couch to race diesel Jettas. What kind of car would be cool enough to attract people to an arrive and drive spec series?
My thought is the BRZ/FR-S. If they snatched some cars off the production line before the full interior is put in and installed a rollcage and safety equipment, slapped on some suspension and basic engine mods I think they could do a race car for $30k-ish. If Subaru/Scion were smart, they'd sell them at a small loss and write it off as a marketing expenditure.
Just seems to me that there are people other than the obscenely rich who'd like to do a turnkey race program. And in the case of a cheaper car, it could do a lot more for the brand than Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, or whatever.
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - Goodspeed - 04-01-2013
I'm not sure whats been happening with it lately, but Spec B sounds pretty close to what you're after:
![[Image: bspectest.jpg]](http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/wp-content/uploads//2011/10/bspectest.jpg)
It'd be awesome to see FRS's etc but IMO that'd blow the ~30k out of the water. Spec B cars start at ~14 and end up at 30k (I think that includes some mfr. support), and IIRC a MX-5 Cup car is ~$60k
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - G.Irish - 04-01-2013
I thought B-Spec was a build-your-own-then-race-it deal? Even then, the kits are only a few thousand, then you've gotta strip the car and install the roll cage. I guess if you buy the car showroom new, then add the labor for a cage and install you could get to about $30k. Here's Car and Driver's chart for those cars:
![[Image: click?format=go&key=83ca59abd64da954ea24...8650773144]](http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=83ca59abd64da954ea24d1a9ca601ba4&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fitfreak.net%2Fforums%2Ffit-racing%2F71158-scca-b-spec-honda-fit-others.html&v=1&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&libid=1364865002260&out=http%3A%2F%2Fimg18.imageshack.us%2Fimg18%2F5454%2Fbspecracershondafitvski.jpg&title=SCCA%20B-Spec%20Honda%20Fit%20(and%20others)%20-%20Unofficial%20Honda%20FIT%20Forums&txt=&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13648650773144)
But part of my point was for people to buy already prepped cars. I think it's kind of a waste of time to buy a street car, then tear a bunch of stuff out that you're gonna throw away. Why not go straight to race car like the Porsche Cup or Ferrari Challenge cars? Now in those two cases you've got cars that are significantly upgraded over the street car with fancy expensive stuff. I'm thinking for a BRZ cup kind of deal you'd just have suspension, intake/header/exhaust, race seat, cage, and maybe a race dash.
You're right that it probably would cost more than $30k, but that's why I say manufacturer subsidized. Even if someone like Subaru spent a million or 2 on series like that it would be a lot more effective than wasting money on print or tv ads that no one remembers.
Then again Subaru and Toyota are selling every one they make so I guess they don't necessarily need to market them. Maybe Nissan would stand to gain more by pumping up the 370Z. It'd be a good deal more expensive but I think people would be excited to drive them (assuming Nissan fixed the cooling and braking issues...).
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - BLINGMW - 04-01-2013
G.Irish Wrote:there's probably a market out there for far less rich guys that would like to race a cool turnkey racecar. Like if there were a program where you buy an already race prepped racecar for maybe $30k and you can either maintain and transport it to the races yourself...
G.Irish Wrote:I think it's kind of a waste of time to buy a street car, then tear a bunch of stuff out that you're gonna throw away...
All good points
![[Image: 09-club-sprints-srf.jpg]](http://www.awrracing.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/09-club-sprints-srf.jpg)
And a brand new one costs.... $30k. A little more next season when they have an all-new (long overdue) engine package.
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - Goodspeed - 04-01-2013
G.Irish Wrote:I think it's kind of a waste of time to buy a street car, then tear a bunch of stuff out that you're gonna throw away.
Toyota is with you on that one...in JDM land at least
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/02/toyota-gt-86-rc-is-stripped-down-lighter-and-cheaper.html
![[Image: toyota-gt-86-rc.jpg]](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/02/toyota-gt-86-rc.jpg)
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - navin - 04-01-2013
Heh, Honda used to do that (might still) in Japan with the CTR, and ITR. I thought HPD is also offering race "shells" now as well.
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - D_Eclipse9916 - 04-02-2013
G.Irish Wrote:Then again Subaru and Toyota are selling every one they make so I guess they don't necessarily need to market them. Maybe Nissan would stand to gain more by pumping up the 370Z. It'd be a good deal more expensive but I think people would be excited to drive them (assuming Nissan fixed the cooling and braking issues...).
Nissan is dumping mad money into motorsports with it's programs. They also are dumping a ton of money into Spec (guess what?) ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Seriously big cash payouts ($6500 cash for a national win, $500 every regional weekend for a win). I highly considered building one until serious issues were popping up (the 350z has a VERY VERY common and bad "ice mode", and the "spec" diff kept exploding every weekend.
So you have Spec Z, and you have MX5 Cup. Those are both Spec classes based on cheap cars.
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - WRXtranceformed - 04-02-2013
What does Ice Mode mean?
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - G.Irish - 04-02-2013
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Yeah but in both series you'd have to buy a street car and build it yourself. In the other series' I was talking about, you buy a complete racecar and go rock and roll. By doing it that way hopefully you'd get some economies of scale, you get rid of some of the hassle, and it could be subsidized enough to make it cheaper than if you built it yourself.G.Irish Wrote:Then again Subaru and Toyota are selling every one they make so I guess they don't necessarily need to market them. Maybe Nissan would stand to gain more by pumping up the 370Z. It'd be a good deal more expensive but I think people would be excited to drive them (assuming Nissan fixed the cooling and braking issues...).
Nissan is dumping mad money into motorsports with it's programs. They also are dumping a ton of money into Spec (guess what?) ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Seriously big cash payouts ($6500 cash for a national win, $500 every regional weekend for a win). I highly considered building one until serious issues were popping up (the 350z has a VERY VERY common and bad "ice mode", and the "spec" diff kept exploding every weekend.
So you have Spec Z, and you have MX5 Cup. Those are both Spec classes based on cheap cars.
But maybe the reason no one has done it is because of logistical challenges or because they figure it's easy to just make a kit and let people figure out how they're going to put it together. Still, I think that if in Porsche Cup and Ferrari Challenge you had to actually buy the street car, then have it built into a racecar, A LOT fewer people would race in those series.
The other thing is that presumably a manufacturer would fix all of the shortcomings of the street car when they build the racecar. That said, Ferrari didn't always do that correctly, some of the mechanics were telling me the first year of the 430 challenge ta lot of the cars overheated on the first race weekend.
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - Kaan - 04-02-2013
There are guys able to pick up salvaged (wrecked/flooded) Spec B chassis for $2-3k and put in $1-2k to get them repaired and back into awesome base shape. the issue is to save money you have to have the space and be willing to drag it around to get the work done and have some elbow grease of your own to throw in. Its not an arrive and drive series really.
the more expensive the cars (even foord is doing this with the mustangs)... the more likely they are not ownly and arrive and drive series, but the cars are factory built race cars. these cars also fit into series like grand am and ALMS... where "fame" can be had and it brings in movie starts and rich people.
the more budget minded spec type series (TDI Cup, the mazda adventures, etc) dont have the glamour or the sponsors... and do the rich people want to drive jettas, miatas, or even spec zs? the ALMS/Grand Am specced Zs they will drive though
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - G.Irish - 04-02-2013
Kaan Wrote:the more expensive the cars (even foord is doing this with the mustangs)... the more likely they are not ownly and arrive and drive series, but the cars are factory built race cars. these cars also fit into series like grand am and ALMS... where "fame" can be had and it brings in movie starts and rich people.This is what I'm getting at, if you had an arrive and drive based on a bit more desirable car you might get enough takers to make it worthwhile. And it wouldn't take filthy rich guys to fill the grid the way it does with P Cup or F Challenge.
the more budget minded spec type series (TDI Cup, the mazda adventures, etc) dont have the glamour or the sponsors... and do the rich people want to drive jettas, miatas, or even spec zs? the ALMS/Grand Am specced Zs they will drive though
You make a good point about the factory built race cars fitting into pro racing. Maybe the way to do it is do a spec car that would fit easily into Grand Am Street Touring (or whatever the hell they call it now). The level of modification would have to be higher, which would be more costly. But it would attract more competitors I think.
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - Kaan - 04-02-2013
I'd have to look at the GrandAm rule for that base class... and you'd also have to talk GrandAm into it... but I think the current competition in the class might make adding a shared spec class very hard. I think they changed the name to "Street Tuner"
I think one of the big hold backs will be (for the BRZ) is GrandAm STs need to have boost regulations per track and regulating the spec series in a similar manner
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - JustinG - 04-02-2013
WRXtranceformed Wrote:What does Ice Mode mean?
![[Image: ice1ld8.gif]](http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1601/ice1ld8.gif)
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - G.Irish - 04-02-2013
Kaan Wrote:I'd have to look at the GrandAm rule for that base class... and you'd also have to talk GrandAm into it... but I think the current competition in the class might make adding a shared spec class very hard. I think they changed the name to "Street Tuner"[/quote[BRZ is n/a so no problem there.
I think what you do is have the spec series BRZ (for example) and make the spec modifications add enough performance that the car would be able to run in Street Tuner. Porsche Cup cars run in ALMS GTC right now.
Quote:I think one of the big hold backs will be (for the BRZ) is GrandAm STs need to have boost regulations per track and regulating the spec series in a similar manner
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - Mike - 04-02-2013
I'd have to think there would be demand for a racing group with old Hondas. They're cheap, fun, easy to work on, readily available... You could have a bunch of categories for "spec" type cars (clearly, some cars are faster than others) and then maybe like an unlimited class with motor swaps and stuff. Cheap, fun... What could go wrong?
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - Kaan - 04-02-2013
Mike Wrote:I'd have to think there would be demand for a racing group with old Hondas. They're cheap, fun, easy to work on, readily available... You could have a bunch of categories for "spec" type cars (clearly, some cars are faster than others) and then maybe like an unlimited class with motor swaps and stuff. Cheap, fun... What could go wrong?
please see Honda Challenge.
Re: One Make Car Series (Ferrari Challenge, Porsche Cup, etc - Kaan - 04-02-2013
G.Irish Wrote:Kaan Wrote:I'd have to look at the GrandAm rule for that base class... and you'd also have to talk GrandAm into it... but I think the current competition in the class might make adding a shared spec class very hard. I think they changed the name to "Street Tuner"[/quote[BRZ is n/a so no problem there.
I think what you do is have the spec series BRZ (for example) and make the spec modifications add enough performance that the car would be able to run in Street Tuner. Porsche Cup cars run in ALMS GTC right now.
Quote:I think one of the big hold backs will be (for the BRZ) is GrandAm STs need to have boost regulations per track and regulating the spec series in a similar manner
DOH... so the next issue would be... can you get "spec-able" HP out of the BRZ to keep up with the boosted cars. I know honda has done it, so its not impossible. but then how heavy do you make the RWD N/A spec car vs the NA FWD car in ST.