+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: GM is making some good stuff lately. (/showthread.php?tid=6244)
- ViPER1313 - 11-13-2008
I just love how everybody on here jumped to the other car's defenses right away. It must be the driver, tires, track temperature, etc.. no way a factory stock Cobalt should be faster than an Elise around VIR.
Whether the guy driving the Elise sucked hard I can't say, but in this comparison, showroom stock for stock, it was.
And I really doubt that the drivers of all those other cars sucked that much harder than the driver of the Cobalt......
Also, the Cobalt SS comes stock from the factory with no lift to shift. How BA is that?
- BLINGMW - 11-13-2008
Well it's interesting, I guess I'm surprised that anyone's defending this kind of testing, but clearly there IS a large market for these magazines and tests, and I guess there's something different about the way you guys think. I thought it was absurd, but clearly there are many that have thought about it and don't come to that conclusion. That's ok! :dunno:
I'm really sure how anyone's comparing other mods to tires, but whatever. I'd say tires and brake pads are consumable, easily changed and upgraded all while not challenging the warranty, and have to be replaced many times during a car's life. If I buy a brand new $30k+ car, what's a few hundred bucks worth of tires? So why not put everyone on the same shoes? And like Hunter pointed out, they do all this other shite to make it look like a real test, rotate drivers, time the lap sections, run all these numbers.... all while ignoring the LARGEST variable. What a waste of time IMHO.
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Who would argue that the Elise isn't a better engineered car? Nobody.That's my point. MAYBE it is better engineered. MAYBE the Elise is just a lot of show and has shitty suspension (it doesn't, but I'm just making an example). MAYBE the Cobalt IS actually faster! Or maybe it's only like a second slower! That would be a great accomplishment. And possible I think as there are some expensive cars out there that are a lot more show than go. If we were just going to assume that the more expensive, faster looking cars are faster.... then why the hell are we testing them at all?
*edit* And I was afraid someone would come to the Cobalt's defense.... I'm not attacking the Cobalt at all. Maybe it's baller, I don't know. And this test doesn't help me determine that at all. While the elise in my mind should easily beat it, I'm not sure about the 135. Or the Evo. They're heavy. Soft. Maybe it's close. Maybe the Cobalt would win. But we still don't know.
- Maengelito - 11-13-2008
chan, I agree with you, I was just pointing out that all this info was in fact listed in the article. I do find it absurd myself and if I were to buy a car to track off the showroom floor, tires and brakes would be the first things to change.
- Hunter - 11-13-2008
ViPER1313 Wrote:I just love how everybody on here jumped to the other car's defenses right away. It must be the driver, tires, track temperature, etc.. no way a factory stock Cobalt should be faster than an Elise around VIR.I'm not saying there's no way the Cobalt could be the fastest car, in fact I think it's an awesome car. It's under 3000 lbs, has over 250 hp, costs under $25k and isn't loaded down with unnecessary crap. Now if it just wasn't WHD (wrong wheel drive) it would probably be my favorite car on the market right now. :lol: Chevy is definitely doing something right with that car.
My complaint isn't really about the cars in the test or the results, but more about the way the test is promoted as being a level playing field and very scientific when it isn't. Maybe the real difference in our opinions is whether to view the tires as a variable that is easily and often swapped out, or view them as the equipment that came on the car from the factory. They're just two different views and they're both correct, but they're the correct way to find an answer to different questions.
Now in regards to complaining about the cars...
How did the Elise get beat by the Challenger SRT8? It weights less than half as much AND has a better power to weight ratio! Maybe my real complaint is what the hell is wrong with the Elise sc? :lol: The old Elise dominated all these cars.
- BLINGMW - 11-13-2008
Hunter Wrote:How did the Elise get beat by the Challenger SRT8? It weights less than half as much AND has a better power to weight ratio! Maybe my real complaint is what the hell is wrong with the Elise sc? :lol: The old Elise dominated all these cars.I'm guessing GM and Chrysler paid for a lot more advertising over the last few months than Lotus did? :dunno: No worries though, they won't have much left for advertising here soon. :lol:
- Evan - 11-13-2008
Evan Wrote:that VIR article is a gigantic pile of flaming poo.
worth reiterating.
- Steve85 - 11-14-2008
BLINGMW Wrote:Hunter Wrote:How did the Elise get beat by the Challenger SRT8? It weights less than half as much AND has a better power to weight ratio! Maybe my real complaint is what the hell is wrong with the Elise sc? :lol: The old Elise dominated all these cars.I'm guessing GM and Chrysler paid for a lot more advertising over the last few months than Lotus did? :dunno: No worries though, they won't have much left for advertising here soon. :lol:
OK...here..
Car and Driver Wrote:That earlier Elise was equipped with wider and stickier tires, which offset the SCÔÇÖs extra punch. And we experienced gear-selection drama with the vague engagements of the six-speed manual gearbox, which also held this car back.
Bad tranny also slowed the BMW.
What's funny is that the article strikes me as a "Rental car ruckus" type thread. They borrowed cars from the mfr flogged them at the track with timing devices for two days and wrote an article about it. Yeah, that sucks.
And let me add...if you build what is essentially a single purpose car that has its strength in the corners and put shitty tires on it...fuck you..you deserve to be embarassed by a hot rod cavalier. No excuses.
- ViPER1313 - 11-14-2008
What in the hell is "gear selection drama" - the Green SHO had a broken shift bushing and would allow 1" of slop side to side while the car was in gear, but I didn't have any trouble shifting it on a race track.....
- ScottyB - 01-15-2009
ScottyB Wrote:
![[Image: x09pn_st002.jpg]](http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/03/x09pn_st002.jpg)
just released today
"2009 Solstice Coupe has a MSRP of $26,845, which includes Destination Charges of $620.
2009 Solstice Coupe GXP MSRP is $30,995, also including Destination Charges.
As posted earlier this week, the Stowable Soft Top Package (includes the Soft Top and the Hard Top Storage Bag). will have a MSRP of $1,180. As a LPO, it can be ordered at the time the Coupe order is placed, and it will be listed on the Window Sticker. It will be shipped seperately to the dealership and the dealership will place the package in the car at the time of delivery. By doing it this way, it is easier to include in any financing or leasing the buyer may be using."
or just wait until one hits the used market and get it half off. either way the GXP version is one of my favorite cars now.
- Evan - 01-15-2009
not bad
![[Image: 09_pontiac_solstice_coupe_new.jpg]](http://www.thetorquereport.com/09_pontiac_solstice_coupe_new.jpg)
- HAULN-SS - 01-15-2009
I just saw an article on that car yesterday, and thought that I remembered someone talking about solstice being killed? Guess not huh?
- .RJ - 01-15-2009
Evan Wrote:not bad
Not too late
- Evan - 01-15-2009
HAULN-SS Wrote:I just saw an article on that car yesterday, and thought that I remembered someone talking about solstice being killed? Guess not huh?next gen solstice was killed. current generation will live out its product cycle and end.
- Feersty - 01-15-2009
I would still choose a M roadster over that. I bet no one here buys one though.
- Hunter - 01-15-2009
Feersty Wrote:I would still choose a M roadster over that. I bet no one here buys one though.Well the M roadster is roughly double the cost of the Solstice, so if I could get one for free I'd choose the BMW too.
Re: GM is making some good stuff lately. - HAULN-SS - 02-23-2010
Am I the only one who really likes the idea of the base model camaro? I keep finding myself pricing out a base model in black, with the factory black rims and fat rubbers..and it keeps making me hot and bothered. It's kind of unusual to even see the v6s around seems like..every time I go to the lot I only see SS's. The appeal of a 23k pricetag is quite nice too.
Re: GM is making some good stuff lately. - CaptainHenreh - 02-23-2010
Doesn't the Base Camaro have the DI V6? Something like 300hp?
I drove a newish CTS with the DI V6, and that thing was peppy for a huge pig. Chevy says 29mpg? The V6 Camaro is better than the old SS!
Re: GM is making some good stuff lately. - ScottyB - 02-23-2010
the DI V6 sounds great and the handling is better to boot.
the question is if you can live with knowing that you're driving a V6 camaro. personally, i could, but i always tend to love base models.
Re: GM is making some good stuff lately. - HAULN-SS - 02-23-2010
Yeah..305HP or something like that.
![[Image: 2009_red_camaro_with_black_wheels_7-568-426.jpg]](http://www.madwhips.com/upload/images/2009_red_camaro_with_black_wheels_7-568-426.jpg)
those rims on this car:
![[Image: Camaro-Black-Concept-car-wallpaper.jpg]](http://www.dieselstation.com/pics/Camaro-Black-Concept-car-wallpaper.jpg)
I couldnt find a picture, but if oyu want to see it, build a base model on chevrolets site. It really is H&Bing me
Re: GM is making some good stuff lately. - .RJ - 02-23-2010
I really like them from the outside. We've been over the rest