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+--- Thread: VIR north July 28-30 (/showthread.php?tid=4319)
- Mike - 08-01-2006
bimmerboodle Wrote:Apoc Wrote:There are a lot of qualified instructors from other organizations that have not taken NASA's Instructor clinic...some of them could probably teach it.RJ Wrote:That's almost as bad as people instructing without even taking the clinic... oh wait.... sorry.Evan Wrote:I thought you had to be approved to get into that.....
Yeah but often times people that have no business being in the instructor clinic slip through if they just sign up. The comp school students must be 'approved' by chris, I would like to see the instructor clinic "students" handled the same way.
just as i don't trust the work of others (inherent in my job), nasa should not trust the qualification of such people by other sanctioning bodies.
- white_2kgt - 08-01-2006
Mike Wrote:bimmerboodle Wrote:Apoc Wrote:There are a lot of qualified instructors from other organizations that have not taken NASA's Instructor clinic...some of them could probably teach it.RJ Wrote:That's almost as bad as people instructing without even taking the clinic... oh wait.... sorry.Evan Wrote:I thought you had to be approved to get into that.....
Yeah but often times people that have no business being in the instructor clinic slip through if they just sign up. The comp school students must be 'approved' by chris, I would like to see the instructor clinic "students" handled the same way.
just as i don't trust the work of others (inherent in my job), nasa should not trust the qualification of such people by other sanctioning bodies.
and I think NASA needs to stop the practice of honoring SCCA/BMW/PCA licenses, if you want a NASA license, goto comp school. I'm sure it would hut the ego's of some long time SCCAer's, but boo fucking hoo. Not that I expect that to happen anytime soon.
- Dragon - 08-01-2006
Mike Wrote:I somewhat agree with Mike here. When a nurse moves from one state to another she must pass certain tests in order to get certified to be a nurse in that new state, the same goes for a real estate agent. I don't doubt that many of these instructors have the knowledge and experience to be one, but they don't have it in our environment. I think there should be some sort of testing that's done to makesure they are aware of how we do things.bimmerboodle Wrote:There are a lot of qualified instructors from other organizations that have not taken NASA's Instructor clinic...some of them could probably teach it
just as i don't trust the work of others (inherent in my job), nasa should not trust the qualification of such people by other sanctioning bodies.
- bimmerboodle - 08-01-2006
Dragon Wrote:Not that I don't agree but thankfully Instructors are NOT my area. Babysitting the racers and HPDE'rs is plenty enough work for me.Mike Wrote:I somewhat agree with Mike here. When a nurse moves from one state to another she must pass certain tests in order to get certified to be a nurse in that new state, the same goes for a real estate agent. I don't doubt that many of these instructors have the knowledge and experience to be one, but they don't have it in our environment. I think there should be some sort of testing that's done to makesure they are aware of how we do things.bimmerboodle Wrote:There are a lot of qualified instructors from other organizations that have not taken NASA's Instructor clinic...some of them could probably teach it
just as i don't trust the work of others (inherent in my job), nasa should not trust the qualification of such people by other sanctioning bodies.
- Apoc - 08-01-2006
white_2kgt Wrote:and I think NASA needs to stop the practice of honoring SCCA/BMW/PCA licenses, if you want a NASA license, goto comp school. I'm sure it would hut the ego's of some long time SCCAer's, but boo fucking hoo. Not that I expect that to happen anytime soon.
I agree that there is probably a need to demonstrate the basic skills required for racing but sending people who have been racing for 10 years to a comp school is a bit ridiculous. That would be like saying a Virginia driver's license is only good in Virginia because other states don't trust the testing practices.
Instructors make sense because they're "teaching the future" but you are absolutely not going to promote cross organizational membership (read: growing NASA from the outside) if you make racers go to comp school.
I think we can all agree that more people tend to slip through the cracks (in every form) than should.
This is where I disclose I'm biased because I got my license with PCA.
- Dragon - 08-01-2006
white_2kgt Wrote:and I think NASA needs to stop the practice of honoring SCCA/BMW/PCA licenses, if you want a NASA license, goto comp school. I'm sure it would hut the ego's of some long time SCCAer's, but boo fucking hoo. Not that I expect that to happen anytime soon.This I don't really agree with. I don't feel that someone who's been racing with another sanctioning body for years should be forced to go through the comp school. If they have a race license from another sanctioning body and wish to race with us they should be given a "rookie/provisional" license and their behavior and performance are observed just as any other rookie's is. Every race organization does stuff slightly differently so you evaluate them, see if they are behaving properly within the NASA way of things while they have a rookie/provisional NASA license, and if they are good boys and girls then allow them to stay, otherwise, don't grant them a NASA race license and send them back to whichever sanctioning body they came from.
- white_2kgt - 08-01-2006
Dragon Wrote:white_2kgt Wrote:and I think NASA needs to stop the practice of honoring SCCA/BMW/PCA licenses, if you want a NASA license, goto comp school. I'm sure it would hut the ego's of some long time SCCAer's, but boo fucking hoo. Not that I expect that to happen anytime soon.This I don't really agree with. I don't feel that someone who's been racing with another sanctioning body for years should be forced to go through the comp school. If they have a race license from another sanctioning body and wish to race with us they should be given a "rookie/provisional" license and their behavior and performance are observed just as any other rookie's is. Every race organization does stuff slightly differently so you evaluate them, see if they are behaving properly within the NASA way of things while they have a rookie/provisional NASA license, and if they are good boys and girls then allow them to stay, otherwise, don't grant them a NASA race license and send them back to whichever sanctioning body they came from.
Ok, maybe not a full comp school 1 day, because we know how hard that can be :roll: but they need to sit down in a classroom for 30 min to 1hr and be told how NASA works, flags, starts, etc. This might help people understand that we do Standing starts (so they won't keep rolling past the cone and have to come all the way around the track again) or maybe prevent someone from blowing 5 red flags, I could go on...Personally I don't think showing another groups license and $60 the morning of a race is enough, but that's just me, I spent a few years in HPDE and went to comp school and probably have more experience on track than some SCCA 'racers'.
- Dave - 08-01-2006
bimmerboodle Wrote:Yes she did not pass Instructor clinic last Feb.hock:
OMG, this scares me that she even made it to that. The only reason I haven't taken the instructor clinic yet is b/c I wanted to have a lot of experience to be able to handle more situations. I think I told myself I wanted around 10 events in group 3 before I'd try to become an instructor. Kinda scary that she already tried, thank goodness she failed.
- BLINGMW - 08-01-2006
Dave Wrote:The only reason I haven't taken the instructor clinic yet is b/c I wanted to have a lot of experience to be able to handle more situations.
same here, I don't WANT to be an unqualified instructor. I want to be able to hop in the car and tell the guy WTF is going on and how to make him faster, not just ride around and try to sign him off as quickly as possible so I can get free track time. Idealy, I'd like to be able to race first too, and be fast dammit, so I can impart all that worldly knowledge, but I can't afford that just yet.
- Dragon - 08-01-2006
BLINGMW Wrote:I want to be able to hop in the car and tell the guy WTF is going on and how to make him faster, not just ride around and try to sign him off as quickly as possible so I can get free track time.Or be like certain instructors I know and sign them off solo asap so you can leave early on Sunday.
- .RJ - 08-01-2006
Dragon Wrote:Or be like certain instructors I know and sign them off solo asap so you can leave early on Sunday.
I only do that at CMP!
- G.Irish - 08-01-2006
Eh, I wouldn't require SCCA racers to take another comp licensing test. Maybe have them on probation for the first race or two if they only recently acquired it.
The only problems with SCCA racers may be:
A. Level of contact they think is acceptable
B. Standing starts
I don't think you need to make someone go through a comp school for that. Just have a special meeting/briefing for anyone new to NASA with an outside race license.
The red flag issue is really something every race organization should go over at every driver's meeting because it comes out so rarely but if it does come out and someone f's it up the consequences could be dire. I've seen both experienced NASA and SCCA people mess it up so its not just one organization.
As far as car control, yes, technically you could survive the SCCA school without having the car control skills that you should have in Group 3 in NASA but again, we've seen plenty of people who came from the NASA ranks who had lots of offs and a few crashes when they got their licenses.
I don't know about EMRA or TCRA or any of the others though.
- bimmerboodle - 08-01-2006
.RJ Wrote:Damn guilty conscience right there!!!!Dragon Wrote:Or be like certain instructors I know and sign them off solo asap so you can leave early on Sunday.
I only do that at CMP!
- .RJ - 08-01-2006
G.Irish Wrote:The only problems with SCCA racers may be:
A. Level of contact they think is acceptable
From what i've seen, that is not the case. The corner workers are much more aggressive in calling in contact during the race, and many times the drivers are called to the tower after the race to explain themselves - and most of the racing I've seen (all 2 days of it) with SCCA at summit has been pretty damn clean with the exception of the 12 hour, which is always a demo derby for some reason. With NASA, many times the onus is on the drivers to fill out an incident report form and bring it to control. Neither side of that fence is better, just different.... but so far this year, HC has had an unacceptable amount of bent metal IMO.
- WRXRacer111 - 08-01-2006
bimmerboodle Wrote:Yes, that is Philicia, Yes she wrecked the cobra, yes she was driving Mike's Exige, NO, I don't know why she is in group 3, Yes she did not pass Instructor clinic last Feb.
The phrase "moving chicane" comes to mind. I don't say that because of pace or lack thereof, I say that because there appeared to be a substantial disconnect between her behavior and typical track etiquette. Giving someone a pointby in 4 then proceeding to race them side-by-side through 5, 5a and part of snake doesn't seem like a good practice in a DE. There are in the group that I would have no problem doing that with, but judging by her confused driving, I felt marginally less bad about likely hosing the Exige with gravel when I had to drop 2 off to avoid hitting her in snake. I don't think she was quite as bad as the guy in the blue Firebird though. I have some great videotape of him almost eating it 7 times while refusing to give a pointby to myself, a Vette and 911. 55mph through the crossover tells me you have more to learn from group 1 or 2. Oh well... such is how it goes. Live and learn, some people you want to spend as little time behind as possible!
- Evan - 08-02-2006
Chris how was the new car?
you going to get your comp license soon?
- G.Irish - 08-02-2006
.RJ Wrote:Really its dependent on region and class that's why I said may. A Spec Miata race in SEDIV is probably going to have a lot more contact than say, an ITC race in WDCR.G.Irish Wrote:The only problems with SCCA racers may be:
A. Level of contact they think is acceptable
From what i've seen, that is not the case. The corner workers are much more aggressive in calling in contact during the race, and many times the drivers are called to the tower after the race to explain themselves - and most of the racing I've seen (all 2 days of it) with SCCA at summit has been pretty damn clean with the exception of the 12 hour, which is always a demo derby for some reason. With NASA, many times the onus is on the drivers to fill out an incident report form and bring it to control. Neither side of that fence is better, just different.... but so far this year, HC has had an unacceptable amount of bent metal IMO.
I remember when we crewed with Bimmerworld in ITS at Road Atlanta and there was more than one rather flagrant punts in the race.
- .RJ - 08-02-2006
G.Irish Wrote:Really its dependent on region and class that's why I said may. A Spec Miata race in SEDIV is probably going to have a lot more contact than say, an ITC race in WDCR.
True, its going to depend on the region, and the class, and the circumstances and it seems that the mid-to-back of the pack in a big SM group has the worst of it.
Many times I've seen some rather flagrant contact go without repercussion with s-club (other than the usual "stay away from that guy" reputation), and sometimes a simple nudge with the bumper turn into a complete fiasco with threads of turning in your race license. Who knows... no one is perfect, but if I got punted I'll be first in line to file the incident report and protest.
- Maengelito - 08-02-2006
so did anyone else take pics of this event or the karting event?
- white_2kgt - 08-02-2006
Maengelito Wrote:so did anyone else take pics of this event or the karting event?
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