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+--- Thread: VPILF! (/showthread.php?tid=7592)
- G.Irish - 09-03-2008
Kaan Wrote:International rules to apply to all law enforcement agencies. Our current system is much "nicer" than the international law we agreed to.No Kaan, do not make excuses for the incompetence that cost 3,000 Americans their lives. The FBI agents on the ground who actually had Moussaoui in custody and presented evidence to their superiors that this guy was involved with terrorism and confirmed evidence that he was taking flight training knew something was up. Those professionals in their judgment had all of the evidence that they needed to determine that this guy was an imminent terrorist threat. But their superiors sat on their hands and didn't even try. Sorry, that doesn't cut it. If there is a chance that many lives will be lost if this guy gets to enact his plan, then they had damned well seek a warrant. I can guarantee you that if that happened now they wouldn't even wait for a warrant.
The fact is we dont know what they had. Only the people with much more law enforcement experience knew if they could get a warrent... they didnt think it was possible with that they had. Who are we to say they did? I've only been schooled in it, i've never actually saught a warrent... but i do know a lot depends on the judges interpritation and if they didnt think they could pull it they were just wasting if they tried. we can play monday morning quarterback on that situation all day. the fact is the proffesionals involved didnt feel the warrent could be obtained.
As for Sibel Edmonds you have an FBI agent who was tasked with translating intelligence who was told by superiors to slow down so they could get more budget for the next year. A woman who found that one of her coworkers was very likely acting on behalf of a foreign government and giving false translations on documents that could've helped prevent 9/11. She blew the whistle on her coworkers and superiors and she was fired.
There is absolutely no reason to make excuses for incompetence and cowardice in our own government.
- Kaan - 09-03-2008
it all depends on the text books you read. the technical way its taught in turkish schools (which we dont bother to teach at all here) is that the formation of the republic started before WW1. The thought of the republic and the fighting about it took many years to take hold.
Jews were welcome in the Ottoman Empire... and in the republic. Part of the mainstay of the republic was they werent just going to say they had religious freedom but enforce it.
There were plenty of jewish settlements in Israel before it was even created. They were started under the protection of the Empire/Republic. When it was dismantled after WW1 they lost their protection and had to fight to stay.
The creation of the state of Israel made the issue worse. but the issue started when they divided the turkish nation.
I'd be shot in Turkey for saying this... but a lot of that is Attaturks fault for backing zzzz Germans!
5 years after the end of the war Turkey finally became a republic. But during the war is when it really started. what better time to start a rebellion? the army isnt at home.
- G.Irish - 09-03-2008
Kaan Wrote:I'd be shot in Turkey for saying this... but a lot of that is Attaturks fault for backing zzzz Germans!You'll be shot here for criticizing Ataturk!!!
- Kaan - 09-03-2008
Gerald i think you are applying a very post 9/11 attitude to a pre 9/11 situation.
- stevegula - 09-03-2008
Apoc Wrote:No, i think you use a poor definition of it. :-| Not trying to be rude, just honest.stevegula Wrote:Apoc Wrote:US Weekly hardly counts as "media"... right? Someone please say yes.If they're a magazine advertised at the checkout lane of a grocery store I think it counts as 'media'. They also push out near 2 million mags a week so that sounds like 'media' to me.
By those standards, National Enquirer, Maxim and Cosmo are media too.
I guess I just think of "Media" as news outlets, not entertainment. I realize the line has really been blurred in recent years but there's gotta be some sort of imaginary line in the sand.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media</a><!-- m -->
News is merely a subsection of media.
- CaptainHenreh - 09-03-2008
Kaan Wrote:There were plenty of jewish settlements in Israel before it was even created. They were started under the protection of the Empire/Republic. When it was dismantled after WW1 they lost their protection and had to fight to stay.
There were plenty of jewish settlements all over europe before WW2...but just because they were moving towards democracy doesn't mean that they were a democracy at the end of WWI when the ottoman empire got all split up.
- Apoc - 09-03-2008
stevegula Wrote:News is merely a subsection of media.
Agreed... but The Media is a vastly different animal than media.
I consider The Media to be news outlets and not entertainment scandal rags. I'm not going to consider anything US Weekly does as evidence of anything The Media does, I guess is my point. Maybe I just have a hard time thinking that the major news agencies are in the same group as the likes of FHM... although they become closer and closer every day.
BTW, I'm not disputing the Obama is a media darling (he is), just questioning the use of US Weekly as an example.
- Ginger - 09-03-2008
Apoc Wrote:stevegula Wrote:News is merely a subsection of media.
Agreed... but The Media is a vastly different animal than media.
The big problem is that a lot of people tend to think of the two interchangably... you know, they read it on the int3netz!
- WRXtranceformed - 09-03-2008
RJ, go after it... you know she's fucking!!
![[Image: bristol_palin_pregnant.jpg]](http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/uploads/bristol_palin_pregnant.jpg)
- .RJ - 09-03-2008
bristol palin... got some big ass titties
- Kaan - 09-03-2008
.RJ Wrote:bristol palin... got some big ass titties
she's a little old for you though RJ...
- WRXtranceformed - 09-03-2008
.RJ Wrote:bristol palin... got some big ass titties
It's the hormones in the milk MAN!
- .RJ - 09-03-2008
Wat?
When I get home I'll find the 'big ass titties' video and post the link.
- Evan - 09-03-2008
G.Irish Wrote:If being black was such a big advantage why hasn't Al Sharpton won the presidency (he ran in 2004)? Why is there only 1 black Senator and 8 black representatives when blacks make up 12% of the population? It's a conspiracy! Those black people are only there because of whitey guilt and affirmation action!ahem. There are 40 blacks in congress +2 non-voting (and Im going to pretend you didnt bring up Al Sharpton, but if youd really like to go down that road Id be happy to) but if that still bothers you, maybe you should look at the number of blacks running for office. It aint 12% of seats. Gotta enter the game if you want to play.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans_in_the_United_States_Congress">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Am ... s_Congress</a><!-- m -->
but lets talk about how *outrageous* "white guilt" is.
our own Tom Davis flatly said that whites could rid themselves of 400 years of guilt by voting for Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama
Black pundit Shelby Steele said the same thing in his book on Obama
Ralph Nader said it, so did Ben Stein.
but I guess these guys are clueless about politics....
Why the media orgy over Obama? The same media that gives racists Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson a platform to speak from has always been biased towards minorities.
If being black isnt a big advantage, then why is the media repeatedly Obama black, when he isnt actually? If being black were'nt an advantage, they would call him mixed race, half-white, or wouldnt pound race into our heads at all. (which is how it should be)
Why the rhetoric comparing him to MLK, why is it so "historic" when an american gets nominated for president?
Why has Obama used the race card so much to remind whities that they are racist if its not to guilt them?
Why has the media written articles flat out saying that if you dont vote for obama you are a racist, like here
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080306/pl_bloomberg/ar7wd5nircc;_ylt=AmjJJKY4jQdOdfNky5Hf2bys0NUE">http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080 ... Hf2bys0NUE</a><!-- m -->
and in last week's Newsweek "If Obama loses, our children will grow up thinking of equal opportunity as a myth ... To the rest of the world, a rejection of the promise he represents ... would be taken for what it would be: sign and symptom of a nation's historical decline"
Even liberal and famous republican hater Bill Maher recognized
ÔÇ£there is a problem...with the media gushing over him too much...The coverage after, that I was watching, from MSNBC, I mean these guys were ready to have sex with him.ÔÇØ
so how absurd is all this, Gerald?
maybe you dont like the term "white guilt", but regardless, Obama being black is a big advantage. A big net advantage.
- G.Irish - 09-03-2008
Evan Wrote:Well shit, I was doin' it wrong. You're right, blacks make up 9% of Congress and 1% of the Senate (only 3 black Senators ever). Still not overrepresented based on population. As far as I know, there have only been 4 black governors, and 1 of them is only there because the governor resigned over a scandal. And there's the whole office of the president. Last I counted it was 43-0 for white guys vs everyone else.G.Irish Wrote:If being black was such a big advantage why hasn't Al Sharpton won the presidency (he ran in 2004)? Why is there only 1 black Senator and 8 black representatives when blacks make up 12% of the population? It's a conspiracy! Those black people are only there because of whitey guilt and affirmation action!ahem. There are 40 blacks in congress +2 non-voting (and Im going to pretend you didnt bring up Al Sharpton, but if youd really like to go down that road Id be happy to) but if that still bothers you, maybe you should look at the number of blacks running for office. It aint 12% of seats. Gotta enter the game if you want to play.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans_in_the_United_States_Congress">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Am ... s_Congress</a><!-- m -->
Sure, the number of black people in office depends on how many run. But just being black and showing up is clearly not enough to get elected.
Quote:but lets talk about how *outrageous* "white guilt" is.
our own Tom Davis flatly said that whites could rid themselves of 400 years of guilt by voting for Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama
Black pundit Shelby Steele said the same thing in his book on Obama
Ralph Nader said it, so did Ben Stein.
but I guess these guys are clueless about politics....
Nader and Stein clueless? Certainly. Shelby Steele is not exactly the most enlightened man in America. Tom Davis was just being stupid.
I could turn around and point out ignorant shit that lots of other people have said on both sides of the race issue or almost any major issue for that matter.
Quote:Why the media orgy over Obama? The same media that gives racists Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson a platform to speak from has always been biased towards minorities.
If being black isnt a big advantage, then why is the media repeatedly Obama black, when he isnt actually? If being black were'nt an advantage, they would call him mixed race, half-white, or wouldnt pound race into our heads at all. (which is how it should be)
That has little to do with the media and everything to do with the culture in this country. If you look black, even if you have a parent of another race you will be considered black. Obama, while light-skinned, looks black and that's why people call him black. There are people who have called him racist not knowing that his mother is white and that he was raised by his white grandparents for exactly that reason.
And let's face it, no one would be accusing him of being secretly Muslim if he were a white guy. And what about Rev. Wright? John McCain got very little flack for his priest saying Christianity should destroy Islam or some other such nonsense but Obama got run through the ringer for comments his angry black pastor made (who also happened to be a Vietnam veteran).
Quote:Why the rhetoric comparing him to MLK, why is it so "historic" when an american gets nominated for president?Am I saying his race doesn't play a part? Of course not. But when Jackie Robinson became the first black baseball player or when the Tuskegee Airmen became the first black fighter squadron it was "historic". Historic because of the racial history of this country. That is undeniable.
People also compare him to JFK. I guess that's because of the white part of him.
Quote:Why has Obama used the race card so much to remind whities that they are racist if its not to guilt them?You can't possibly say Obama's been relying on the race card to get votes. When the Clinton campaign was doing all that race-baiting his campaign responded but you don't see him out there saying, "White people, you didn't give us our forty acres and a mule so you owe us this election." More often than not race doesn't come into his speeches. If anything Hillary was playing the gender card during the primaries.
Quote:Why has the media written articles flat out saying that if you dont vote for obama you are a racist, like here
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080306/pl_bloomberg/ar7wd5nircc;_ylt=AmjJJKY4jQdOdfNky5Hf2bys0NUE">http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080 ... Hf2bys0NUE</a><!-- m -->
and in last week's Newsweek "If Obama loses, our children will grow up thinking of equal opportunity as a myth ... To the rest of the world, a rejection of the promise he represents ... would be taken for what it would be: sign and symptom of a nation's historical decline"
Just like there are ignorant people who say, "If you don't vote for Obama you are racist," there are people who will never vote for a black person period.
Quote:Even liberal and famous republican hater Bill Maher recognizedCould it be working out to a net advantage? Maybe. Big net advantage? I don't think so.
ÔÇ£there is a problem...with the media gushing over him too much...The coverage after, that I was watching, from MSNBC, I mean these guys were ready to have sex with him.ÔÇØ
so how absurd is all this, Gerald?
maybe you dont like the term "white guilt", but regardless, Obama being black is a big advantage. A big net advantage.
I think he gets a lot of press because he's the Tiger Woods of politics.
But unlike Tiger he has to deal with the problem of people who will not vote for him because of his race, even though there are also people who are in love with because of his race.
And his race is the only reason he is where he is? Please. So you're saying the guy has zero merits other than the fact he is black? If being black is the Willy Wonka golden ticket I think I'll just walk into my boss's office and demand to be made CEO. Hell, maybe I'll run for governor. As a amt
- CaptainHenreh - 09-03-2008
Hey hey hey hey hey...
Let's not lose sight of the REAL issue here: Racist Watermelon Seeds.
![[Image: waldo-watermelon-seed.jpg]](http://www.moonbattery.com/waldo-watermelon-seed.jpg)
- Feersty - 09-03-2008
She is a cute looking woman that is for sure.
- JackoliciousLegs - 09-03-2008
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg</a><!-- m -->
- Steve85 - 09-03-2008
She said laying pipe...twice!!
- HAULN-SS - 09-03-2008
haha..i was wondering if i was the only one watching!