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+--- Thread: Official MM Firearms Thread (/showthread.php?tid=7712)
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Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 03-26-2013
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Lol haters. You know you would be jocking someone's d if you saw them shooting one at the range. That gun in dark earth with an eotech and other accessories would be so ridiculously sweet
I mean, it works great in israel, so the actual "street cred" is AOK with me. But.
A: I am not sold on the bullpup lauout
B: It's really expensive.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - Apoc - 03-26-2013
CaptainHenreh Wrote:A: I am not sold on the bullpup lauout
this.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 03-27-2013
Especially Rex being pretty "in the know" I am curious to hear your feedback on the design. What you think the drawbacks are etc. It's clearly built for a specific purpose, but I really like how versatile it is...specfically that model:
- Extremely quick to reload, one handed and easy to keep the rifle on target while doing so
- Longer barrel than my AR with an overall more compact design
- Very little muzzle rise, especially in 9mm format
- Converts to 9mm and 5.45x39
- Excellent weight distribution, able to hold it in firing position with several different hand points
- Stupid easy to clean and from what it looked like, really easy to maintain
- Ambidextrous operation
I have heard other criticisms of the bullpup design but most of them were more personal gripes because it was different. Thoughts?
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 03-27-2013
Without actually handling it, it's tough to judge. So I can only speak to my MSAR...but this pretty much applies to any bullpup.
#1: Mag changes are radically different from a "standard" rifle layout. You're doing it 100% blind, and if you have a bumblefuck malfunction, you're putting the muzzle in the air and looking into your armpit to resolve it.
#2:Yes, but you pay for that by having things going bang right next to your face. For some people, this is simply a bridge too far. Not a big issue for me, but I understand why people wouldn't like it.
#3: It's not going to have any more or less muzzle rise than any other 5.56 carbine of the same weight, barrel length, and muzzle device. And, I mean, the 9mm conversion, while cool, isn't anything I can't do with an AR also...for about half the price.
#4: An AR converts to <damn near any caliber you can think of up to and including .50BMG.> I like that they're offering two calibers out of the box (2 more than Bushmaster has done with the ACR) but the really interesting one is 9mm, not 5.45. There's no domestic manufacturer of 5.45 so unless you've stacked it deep in your basement already I don't see this as a *huge* plus.
#5: Yeah? I guess? As a downside you can't get your support arm fully locked (the gun isn't long enough) for rapid target transitions...the short overall length should offset that, but definitely did *not* on my MSAR.
#6: It is a very well thought out design, and I like the way it breaks down also. But it doesn't look any better than, for example, the ACR or a G36 or any other "modern" (post AK/AR) design.
#7: Ambidextrous, but not all the time. Your charging handle is going to be on one side, or the other. Ejection is going to be right by your face if you're shooting weakside, and while it won't smack you in the face with hot brass like my MSAR did, I assure you it's gonna be very disconcerting.
I mean, again...if they were 1500 bucksish I'd probably buy one. Looks like most of the problems with the Steyr AUG have been resolved, but in some ways it's a step backwards from some of the features of an F2000. (Lacking forward ejection, not being completely sealed, etc.) Also not wild about the safety, but that's probably just a training issue.
I mean, again...I think it's probably the best bullpup out there...but I don't see it being a huge revolution for the black rifle industry. The F(S)2000 has been available to civilians at this same price point for years now, and they sit on shelves. (Some folks claim that's because of magazine restrictions, but I'm not so sure.) Real live israeli ones have been available in Canada for a number of years, and aren't terribly common.
Hell, you need only look as far as the Australian SAS...they have the F88 Austeyr available as their line rifle...and they all use M4's. Same with the british SAS...their grunts use the L85, but special forces around the world choose M4 variants.
In the end the manual of arms is such a departure from convention that switching back and forth between a bullpup and a "standard layout" rifle is pretty difficult without constant practice, and unless you're clearing houses the short overall length isn't worth the ergonomic tradeoffs. It's super cool, and it's real good at fighting, but isn't going to supplant the AR or AK anytime soon.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 03-27-2013
CaptainHenreh Wrote:It's super cool, and it's real good at fighting, but isn't going to supplant the AR or AK anytime soon.I wonder how much of this is because of long standing gov't contracts / cost effectiveness and less because of usability / ergonomics / versatility.
Good points all around though, thanks for sharing! I was just really curious to hear your feedback.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 03-27-2013
WRXtranceformed Wrote:I wonder how much of this is because of long standing gov't contracts / cost effectiveness and less because of usability / ergonomics / versatility.
Yeah, I honestly don't know. Modern western militaries are split like 50/50 on bullpups.
Bullpup club:
Belgium (F2000)
Austria (Steyr AUG)
UK (L85)
France (for now...the FAMAS sucks ass and is being replaced)
Australia (Austeyr F88)
Standard Rifle Club:
Switzerland (SG 550)
Germany (G36)
Spain (G36)
Portugal (G3 I think still)
Turkey (Good lord they have everything BUT a bullpup)
USA (M4/M16A2)
Czech Republic (VZ 58 phase out / CZ 805 phase in)
etc etc etc. (I don't know all the NATO nations from memory)
A lot of those are exports (H&K being quite popular round the free world), but quite a few are home grown solutions, and they still went with a "standard" layout. For .cz, especially they spent a lot of time developing their new rifle (old rifle is from 1958) and still chose a standard rifle...and it ain't like they don't know how to make guns. China uses a bullpup for "front line" troops, but Russia, despite trying a few bullpup designs, has stuck with the standard layout, except for a few rare exceptions.
I dunno. Of all the designs to come out of the west in the last 10 years...the Tavor is the only 'pup.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 04-02-2013
Thoughts on the Chiappa / ATI .22lr uppers? I found a few for sale but also read some really bad reviews on them. Most of the reviews were centered around the lowers (which I won't be using) but I am curious to hear if anyone here has any experience.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - G.Irish - 04-02-2013
CaptainHenreh Wrote:I dunno. Of all the designs to come out of the west in the last 10 years...the Tavor is the only 'pup.The RFB is a recent bullpup AR too. Unless you're only talking about bullpups in military service.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - JustinG - 04-02-2013
ATI, from my experience has been budget minded, low use, chinese stuff. I dont want to use the word crap, because some of it works....I have the collapsible stock kit from ATI for my shotty. It serves its purpose but has high tolerences and the fit/finish isnt amazing, it is your general Chinese made cheapo accessories. Not quite air soft crap, but definately the low end of the spectrum.
Just my general experience with the brand, no real input on their uppers though.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 04-02-2013
That's good to know. For that price honestly I would just spend a little more and get a 10/22 or something. I want a high quality upper if I am going to get one.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 04-04-2013
G.Irish Wrote:CaptainHenreh Wrote:I dunno. Of all the designs to come out of the west in the last 10 years...the Tavor is the only 'pup.The RFB is a recent bullpup AR too. Unless you're only talking about bullpups in military service.
I am. Also, as much as I like George Kellgren's inventions (I think he has an allergy to money) I actually like the RFB the least. I used to have a huge boner for it, but the more people shoot them the worse they appear.
Anyway, BULLPUPS
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - G.Irish - 04-04-2013
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Lot's of malfunctions?G.Irish Wrote:CaptainHenreh Wrote:I dunno. Of all the designs to come out of the west in the last 10 years...the Tavor is the only 'pup.The RFB is a recent bullpup AR too. Unless you're only talking about bullpups in military service.
I am. Also, as much as I like George Kellgren's inventions (I think he has an allergy to money) I actually like the RFB the least. I used to have a huge boner for it, but the more people shoot them the worse they appear.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 04-04-2013
G.Irish Wrote:Lot's of malfunctions?
Combine some serious malfs, some ergonomic warts, mediocre accuracy, a high price tag and zero availability...
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - Ryan T - 04-07-2013
For those of you that conceal carry daily, do you always carry the same weapon? In the fall and winter months when long shirts and jackets are a must I carry my Glock 19 off duty. I prefer it over the PF9 because I am more accurate with it and it holds 10 more rounds. It is easy to conceal with a light jacket or an untucked long sleeve shirt. I can also carry it in my 5.11 shoulder holster shirt with a larger shirt/jacket or a suit on. In the summertime, it's not so easy. My off duty weapon in the summertime in the PF9. I just switched to the PF9 when we went out on Saturday and I was amazed at how comfortable it was compared to the G19 with the crossbreed under just a t-shirt. What are ya'lls thoughts on summer vs. winter carry?
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 04-08-2013
I'm really the wrong person to ask, because I only "conceal :wink: carry".
I carry my fullsize unless I'm wearing shorts. I haphazardly throw my t-shirt over it if I'm going somewhere they might not appreciate how awesome I am.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 04-08-2013
HAULN-SS Wrote:obligatory pics
![[Image: img20121221003346.jpg]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/img20121221003346.jpg/)
![[Image: img20121221003339.jpg]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/img20121221003339.jpg/)
![[Image: img20121221003236.jpg]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/img20121221003236.jpg/)
![[Image: img20121221003223.jpg]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/211/img20121221003223.jpg/)
This will probably be the only thing Deersty and I ever have in common, but I picked up one of these also. Ordered it on 1/19, it arrived 3 months later. Paid under MSRP, and was able to trade my used ACR for enough cash for this rifle (brand new from Knights) *and* an Eotech, which was backordered from L3 until freakin' JUNE. #howboutdemtulips
![[Image: 20130329_194447.jpg]](https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nlfLlE75RQg/UVYoAPOF9NI/AAAAAAAACB4/IKBRYdVpq1I/s711/20130329_194447.jpg)
I love everything about this rifle, unfired. However, I don't want to dip into my stash to shoot the damn thing, and I refuse to pay $14/20 for 5.56.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - Evan - 04-08-2013
Ryan T Wrote:For those of you that conceal carry daily, do you always carry the same weapon? In the fall and winter months when long shirts and jackets are a must I carry my Glock 19 off duty. I prefer it over the PF9 because I am more accurate with it and it holds 10 more rounds. It is easy to conceal with a light jacket or an untucked long sleeve shirt. I can also carry it in my 5.11 shoulder holster shirt with a larger shirt/jacket or a suit on. In the summertime, it's not so easy. My off duty weapon in the summertime in the PF9. I just switched to the PF9 when we went out on Saturday and I was amazed at how comfortable it was compared to the G19 with the crossbreed under just a t-shirt. What are ya'lls thoughts on summer vs. winter carry?When I got a shield I originally intended for it to replace my Kahr, but as it turns out they are different enough that they both have their niche.
The kahr is smaller and easier to conceal so I carry it while wearing lighter clothing. The shield is bigger, more accurate and holds an extra bullet so I carry it whenever my clothing allows it. But I still probably carry the kahr more often.
Im not a fan of concealed carrying a fullsize so I dont carry my XDM at all. I can see carrying it with a regular outside the waistband holster and a sweater/jacket overtop, but I havent done that yet.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - Apoc - 04-08-2013
I had some free time today so I went to the courthouse to get fingerprinted for a CPL. They advertise wait times of "over a half hour" but the wait today was anywhere from 60-90 minutes. Apparently they only have one or two people doing fingerprints and whatever process they're using is prone to not going smoothly. I didn't have that sort of time, so I bailed in favor of visiting another day. :?
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 04-14-2013
Picked this up today at the gun show for Rachael as a wedding gift. She picked it out herself! Ruger SR-22
![[Image: 15277_10151464198673512_1701232866_n.jpg]](https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/15277_10151464198673512_1701232866_n.jpg)
We also picked up a box of 500 .22lr which is super hard to find right now...the guy brought a box from his own personal stash and just sold us some haha.
She wasn't crazy about my 9mm or .40 so I figured this would be a good starter for her to get more comfortable with a less powerful and accurate pistol. More importantly it fits well in her hand which is hard because she has tinyyy hands!
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 04-15-2013
Also looked up Wilson Combat 1911's because some folks on another board were discussing them. Ermahgerd!! $3,000-$5k+ for a pistol? They look really well made and freakin sweet but yeah no I'm good on that! I thought $1k+ was a lot for a handgun.