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+--- Thread: Miata as first car? Suggestions? (/showthread.php?tid=10613)
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - CaptainHenreh - 04-28-2014
why not SN95?
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Senor_Taylor - 04-28-2014
Yeah, I plan on thoroughly inspecting whatever I go for. I think if I started with the E36, I'd never buy a Miata. Buying the Miata, I feel like I'll eventually own an E36.
I'm not sure what that means, honestly.
As far as the mustang, I'd love the cheap power, and being loud and obnoxious is what I'm all about, but I'm really trying to go the other direction of my truck with a car.
My truck does a decent job of have a live axle rear, and having a loud exhaust, being heavy, and going fast in a straight line.
I want a car that's light and nimble, and has independent suspension all the way around.
I've thought long and hard on whether I'd own any of the 90s mustangs, and so far, all I've got is a "maybe."
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Jake - 04-28-2014
You need to drive some well-sorted examples of all of these cars, and talk to owners about what they are like to own and run. Everything has wear items and they're just different (or due at different intervals) based on the platform.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Goodspeed - 04-28-2014
Have you driven both? There is a ton of excellent advice already given, but first you need to take a short drive in each to see what plain suits you better. I loved my Miata because I'm short and it felt like "a car built for me", but I see why people 6ft and over are sometimes lukewarm on them. The NB actually got a bit tighter inside than the NA, then it opened back up in the NC. Also, on the street, I don't know if I could give up having the convertible (something I sorely miss). Just so...so excellent on a nice day. A Miata is also just about the furthest thing you could get from a truck, so there's that. I did enjoy the combo of my XJ and Miata as one did almost perfectly what the other could not, so it was an all-around positive ownership experience. I might just end up getting another (not as built) Miata to have a nice street kart.
I haven't driven an E36 since I drove DJ's race kar the day he bought it (!), but I remember being kind of slack-jawed at how weighty and precise it felt. Awesome chassis and a silky smooth I-6. It was under the cusp of feeling too-big for me so I felt comfortable too. Definitely more of a highway/GT car than any NA/NB.
Here's the deal though, I just want to "warn" you of this - it sounds like whatever car you buy is going to be 80-90% street car, 10-20% auto-x or track (eventually). So I wouldn't necessarily concern yourself too much about what is a more viable track car...make sure its a good street car that suits you and your needs first.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Senor_Taylor - 04-28-2014
Very true. I've driven the E36. Who's donating their Miata for some "let Taylor try to remember how to drive stick" time?
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - davej - 04-28-2014
Senor_Taylor Wrote:Very true. I've driven the E36. Who's donating their Miata for some "let Taylor try to remember how to drive stick" time?
pretty sure I saw Keith raise his hand in the back of the room.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.keithsautosales.com/vehicle_pages/jm1nc25f060117107-2006-mazda-mx-5-miata-2-door-convertible-used-convertible-penn-laird-va.shtml">http://www.keithsautosales.com/vehicle_ ... d-va.shtml</a><!-- m -->
it's about 3 seconds out 33W from downtown.
or if you want to go 33E - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.keithsautosales.com/vehicle_pages/jm1nb353220227178-2002-mazda-mx-5-miata-used-convertible-penn-laird-va.shtml">http://www.keithsautosales.com/vehicle_ ... d-va.shtml</a><!-- m -->
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - CaptainHenreh - 04-28-2014
That's a really poor car to decide if he wanted to buy a 5k miata or not.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - davej - 04-28-2014
the 2002 at the main lot better?
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - D_Eclipse9916 - 04-28-2014
CaptainHenreh Wrote:That's a really poor car to decide if he wanted to buy a 5k miata or not.
+1. Go find a used $5k miata, and a $5k e36.
Comparing a newish Miata that is $12k to a beater E36 is like comparing my M3 race car to a 1990 snub-nose clear-coat peeling miata.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Goodspeed - 04-28-2014
davej Wrote:the 2002 at the main lot better?
Taylor, go drive it! The interior will be nicer than any NA model, but the essence is pretty much the same. In fact, talked down in price, that would be a pretty fantastic purchase. I want a NB2.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Maengelito - 04-28-2014
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Simply put, a miata is easier and cheaper on consumables. No if/and/or/buts about it.
Go to the track a couple times. Talk to people. See what is popular among the "general" population in HPDE 4/TT/Racing (HPDE 1/2 is just people taking their cars and havent jumped in yet). There is a reason Miatas and E36s are ridiculously common.
The miata is very bulletproof out of the box, and is the easy button to be sure.
The E36 is ONLY bulletproof when gone through. All fixes are permanent fixes, and then it just devours track miles. It is heavier/more powerful/better balanced and simply faster. You absoultely pay more up front and in maintenance costs. However, it is not as significant as people make it out to be. Probably on the order of 1.25-1.5x the cost.
With costs on E36s being ridiculously cheap, and modern hardware getting better and better. The Miata is just simply outclassed at this point on track. Unless you are in a field of 30x miatas, you won't be having much fun in one. Jake realized this, Packer quickly realized this, and the sentiments are shared among many track people.
If you just want to get out there for as cheap as possible = miata hands down
If you spend just a bit more dough, youll enjoy the car all the way through the HPDE levels
Miatas are now just an exercise in "stick your hand out the window" during HPDE. 5-10 years ago it was different.
^^Pretty much this. However, I would disagree with DJ's statement that you won't have fun in one. Being that you've never driven on track and are totally green, its actually very fun to roll some newbs in high HP cars in the beginner groups in a Miata. As the skill level increases, then yeah, Miatas are considered to be the slower cars but that doesn't mean they aren't fun. But they are absolutely cheaper to take on track. And definitely go to the track and talk to E36 and Miata owners. Ask to sit in their cars and get a feel for the interior. Also take note which drivers are standing around waiting for their next session, and which drivers are constantly under the hood frantically trying to fix something before their next session.
Evan Wrote:no chance that an e36 will be anywhere near as cheap to maintain and track as a miata.
calling an e36 'luxury' is a stretch. they drive great, but even when new they werent any more luxury than a honda accord. and time is generally not very kind to them.
Evan is spot on here. Time is not very kind to any BMW. Considering that budget is your top priority, you're probably not going to pay top dollar for a pristine condition car but are willing to sacrifice some things here and there if the price reflects it. But it aint so luxurious to have to duct tape a glove box shut. Or glue a saggy headliner every other month. Or sit on a driver's seat thats falling apart. Or deal with window regulators that stop working right before its supposed to rain. Or weld in new shock mounts. Or fix a cracked dashboard or door card. A Miata may not be *much* better, but it never tried to be in the first place. And when you drive one, you sorta forget about luxury because its just a lot of fun.
Senor_Taylor Wrote:Honestly, both cars have major downsides to me. It'll come down to which I want to compromise for unless I can get a 3rd option in here.
I might say "screw it" and go for the worst of both worlds and get a 944 and hate my life and love it at the same time.
I think you're looking at it all wrong. Both cars are phenomenal. There's a reason why both are so popular, not just amongst the track crowd but even both making the Car & Driver's 10 Best list every year for however many years they've been around. They're both really good cars and you won't really lose either way.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Senor_Taylor - 04-28-2014
Again, I'm not buying anything right now, and not taking out a loan.
I was hoping for an MM'er to step up, haha. I suck at driving stick seeing as I never drive anything manual. I can drive it fine, but hill starts give me trouble (Ask Matt). I don't feel like making a fool of myself with some used car salesmen.
Also, I don't think I can talk $9,000 down to $3,500
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Jake - 04-28-2014
Also, let me say this because perhaps it hasn't been said too explicitly yet.
Please, for the love of whatever is holy, stop worrying that "OMG I'm going to add another BMW or Miata into MM and there are already 9 of them, oh the inhumanity!"
There are good platforms and there are bad platforms and there are cars in-between. I was talking to Brad at dinner after the car show about this. You don't see so many E36s everywhere because the cars give us raging hard-ons or because they never need maintenance ever ever. You see them because they are, in well-sorted trim, really really fuckin' good cars to drive. Miatas are the same way. Everything will need bushings and shocks and a clutch and shit. Wear items are inevitable.
I know you want to be a unique snowflake (and you are, really, I promise momma was right) but don't feel like you have to get like, a Plymouth Colt Vista Wagon just for the sake of being unique with your car purchase.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Senor_Taylor - 04-28-2014
Maengelito Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Simply put, a miata is easier and cheaper on consumables. No if/and/or/buts about it.
Go to the track a couple times. Talk to people. See what is popular among the "general" population in HPDE 4/TT/Racing (HPDE 1/2 is just people taking their cars and havent jumped in yet). There is a reason Miatas and E36s are ridiculously common.
The miata is very bulletproof out of the box, and is the easy button to be sure.
The E36 is ONLY bulletproof when gone through. All fixes are permanent fixes, and then it just devours track miles. It is heavier/more powerful/better balanced and simply faster. You absoultely pay more up front and in maintenance costs. However, it is not as significant as people make it out to be. Probably on the order of 1.25-1.5x the cost.
With costs on E36s being ridiculously cheap, and modern hardware getting better and better. The Miata is just simply outclassed at this point on track. Unless you are in a field of 30x miatas, you won't be having much fun in one. Jake realized this, Packer quickly realized this, and the sentiments are shared among many track people.
If you just want to get out there for as cheap as possible = miata hands down
If you spend just a bit more dough, youll enjoy the car all the way through the HPDE levels
Miatas are now just an exercise in "stick your hand out the window" during HPDE. 5-10 years ago it was different.
^^Pretty much this. However, I would disagree with DJ's statement that you won't have fun in one. Being that you've never driven on track and are totally green, its actually very fun to roll some newbs in high HP cars in the beginner groups in a Miata. As the skill level increases, then yeah, Miatas are considered to be the slower cars but that doesn't mean they aren't fun. But they are absolutely cheaper to take on track. And definitely go to the track and talk to E36 and Miata owners. Ask to sit in their cars and get a feel for the interior. Also take note which drivers are standing around waiting for their next session, and which drivers are constantly under the hood frantically trying to fix something before their next session.
Evan Wrote:no chance that an e36 will be anywhere near as cheap to maintain and track as a miata.
calling an e36 'luxury' is a stretch. they drive great, but even when new they werent any more luxury than a honda accord. and time is generally not very kind to them.
Evan is spot on here. Time is not very kind to any BMW. Considering that budget is your top priority, you're probably not going to pay top dollar for a pristine condition car but are willing to sacrifice some things here and there if the price reflects it. But it aint so luxurious to have to duct tape a glove box shut. Or glue a saggy headliner every other month. Or sit on a driver's seat thats falling apart. Or deal with window regulators that stop working right before its supposed to rain. Or weld in new shock mounts. Or fix a cracked dashboard or door card. A Miata may not be *much* better, but it never tried to be in the first place. And when you drive one, you sorta forget about luxury because its just a lot of fun.
Senor_Taylor Wrote:Honestly, both cars have major downsides to me. It'll come down to which I want to compromise for unless I can get a 3rd option in here.
I might say "screw it" and go for the worst of both worlds and get a 944 and hate my life and love it at the same time.
I think you're looking at it all wrong. Both cars are phenomenal. There's a reason why both are so popular, not just amongst the track crowd but even both making the Car & Driver's 10 Best list every year for however many years they've been around. They're both really good cars and you won't really lose either way.
Yeah, I think a Miata will be great at first, I'm just worried about outgrowing it. Not a huge concern, though. All of you make it seem like it's not a huge hassle to sell and buy a new car, considering it seems everyone in MM does it all the time. I personally don't understand how it's possible.
I really don't care too much about cosmetic stuff. Peeling paint doesn't really bother me, bad interior. All is stuff that can be fixed eventually. I just want to have something fun to drive. (Okay, exaggerating on the paint bit).
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Senor_Taylor - 04-28-2014
Jake Wrote:Also, let me say this because perhaps it hasn't been said too explicitly yet.
Please, for the love of whatever is holy, stop worrying that "OMG I'm going to add another BMW or Miata into MM and there are already 9 of them, oh the inhumanity!"
I agree. I'm making sure I put every little thought that crosses my head in this thread. Even the minor ones. I'm not going to avoid a car because everyone else had it. Hell, I was looking at Civics at first. (Maybe I was drunk, I don't know. Don't judge me)
This is like the biggest thing I've ever done in my life. I've never dropped money like this on a car that's going to take me from "Sitting pretty on a huge stack of cash to coast through college" to "Working to make sure he can be safe and pay his bills but also have a blast". I'm making sure I don't make the wrong decision.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Jake - 04-28-2014
Senor_Taylor Wrote:Yeah, I think a Miata will be great at first, I'm just worried about outgrowing it. Not a huge concern, though. All of you make it seem like it's not a huge hassle to sell and buy a new car, considering it seems everyone in MM does it all the time. I personally don't understand how it's possible.
When you buy a car that has a huge enthusiast base, track-related or not, it means you can sell it whenever you want because it's generally always desirable to a wide audience.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Goodspeed - 04-28-2014
Senor_Taylor Wrote:Yeah, I think a Miata will be great at first, I'm just worried about outgrowing it. Not a huge concern, though. All of you make it seem like it's not a huge hassle to sell and buy a new car, considering it seems everyone in MM does it all the time. I personally don't understand how it's possible.
Outgrow how? I don't think that's really a fear you should be having given you haven't driven one yet :dunno: . There are plenty of original-owners of stock NA/NB's who are still having too much fun bombing around under the speed limit who haven't outgrown the car.
Now, if you're worried about outgrowing it in terms of driving ability on a track, I can absolutely promise you that is a fear you won't realize for...years.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Senor_Taylor - 04-28-2014
Goodspeed Wrote:Outgrow how? I don't think that's really a fear you should be having given you haven't driven one yet :dunno: . There are plenty of original-owners of stock NA/NB's who are still having too much fun bombing around under the speed limit who haven't outgrown the car.
Now, if you're worried about outgrowing it in terms of driving ability on a track, I can absolutely promise you that is a fear you won't realize for...years.
Okay, okay. These are things I don't know.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Goodspeed - 04-28-2014
Senor_Taylor Wrote:Okay, okay. These are things I don't know.
Gotcha, I wasn't trying to be snippy. The much-more seasoned track people can certainly attest to this, but worrying about quickly being able to out-drive the car on track (or autocrossing) really isn't a worry you need to complicate your thoughts with. You'll find out very quickly that you'll have a lot of learning to do after your first a/x or track session (which everybody does) and it'll likely be some time before you would feel that you have reached the limit of what the car can do for you in it's current state. Then you're just a set of tires away from wiping the slate clean and re-learning and adapting a bunch of things.
But again, this should all be secondary to you, IMO. Miatas, E36's, both good track cars because they're both very good street cars. You just need more time behind of the wheel of each on the street to see which is a better car for you to live with on a day-to-day basis.
Re: Miata as first car? Suggestions? - Senor_Taylor - 04-28-2014
No worries, man. I appreciate everyone's advice. I'm honestly leaning towards a Miata. I just need to find someone to let me drive theirs in a no-pressure situation.
I just need to practice driving stick (Too bad the only stick-shifts my family has are 2 F-350 powerstrokes) so I can really feel out the cars when I test drive them. No one likes selling a vehicle to some kid who's stalling out on hills in their car.
Edit: Looks like Matt and I are going for a drive in his 328 tonight. I'll get some more seat time and find a good driving position.Then this weekend will look for a Miata to drive.