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+--- Thread: Official MM Firearms Thread (/showthread.php?tid=7712)
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Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 11-13-2012
HAULN-SS Wrote:Regarding gun values...do you think it's true higher end stuff will spike less because every MFer out there is going "omg...must have gun...bushmaster!" thus making the bushmaster price spike more than the HK, et al?
Yes. Stuff that is more expensive sells slower anyway, so there's less chance of it going at a higher price, despite panic. (Or, as is often the case, the High End Stuff has a dramatic waiting list anyway)
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 11-14-2012
Just ordered 2 of the magpul gen 2 window mags and an AR speed loader to save fingers at the range. Also looked at the completely clear advanced warfighter mags on CTD but their shipping / handling costs are a little ridiculous. PSA was $7.00 shipped.
![[Image: 185_1048_popup.jpg]](http://cdn.magpul.com/images/uploads/185_1048_popup.jpg)
When will this thing get here??! Rex, I don't know how you waited as long as you did for your can.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 11-14-2012
WRXtranceformed Wrote:When will this thing get here??! Rex, I don't know how you waited as long as you did for your can.
It's not like I had a whole shitload of choice in the matter. I have to wait for uncle sugar to move his ass.
Lancer L5 AWM mags are titties. I love 'em. Pmags are fine too, I just really love the translucent mags, makes it super easy to see how many rounds are loaded.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 11-18-2012
CaptainHenreh Wrote:That's literally the first bad thing I've heard about the shield, although most people seem to forgo the .40 (cuz .40 is dumb)... I *have* heard some issues (but never experienced) with the extension "piece" causing issues. People who have issues with it (like the mag not seating because the rubber sleeve worked it's way up) tend to just discard the sleeve.
What about the internals leaves something to be desired, though?
Cycled another couple hundred rounds through the shield last weekend and it is fine since S&W replaced the mag catch and magazines. I decided to take a few pictures when I cleaned both pistols to kind of show what I am talking about. I really wish I had an XD-S to compare it to.
First (this is nitpicky), my XDM came with its own case, two mags, a lock, a speed loader, a holster and a magazine holster. The shield came with two mags and a lock in a cardboard box.
Comparisons:
XDM Mags - The metal is much higher quality, the spring moves smoothly and these "seat" much more rewardingly than the shield mags.
![[Image: 20121114_174150.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_174150.jpg)
![[Image: 20121114_174128.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_174128.jpg)
Shield Mags - replaced ones from S&W
![[Image: 20121114_174302.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_174302.jpg)
![[Image: 20121114_174207.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_174207.jpg)
XDM Apart
![[Image: 20121114_174707.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_174707.jpg)
![[Image: 20121114_174740.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_174740.jpg)
The spring and metal here are much higher quality. Especially the part that fits into the barrel notch (I don’t know the exact term for it). You can see how ridiculously thin this piece is on the shield.
More XDM internals. Super study and solid feeling:
![[Image: 20121114_175812.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_175812.jpg)
Shield apart
![[Image: 20121114_180020.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_180020.jpg)
You can see how thin and “wobbly” the spring is here. It does not have a tight fit at all
![[Image: 20121114_180038.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_180038.jpg)
Here is a shot of how thin the piece is that seats into the barrel notch
![[Image: 20121114_180052.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_180052.jpg)
Here it is actually installed
![[Image: 20121114_181059.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_181059.jpg)
Slide on a basically brand new gun
![[Image: 20121114_180707.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v402/WRXTranceformed/20121114_180707.jpg)
I’m being nitpicky I know and I am not as super knowledgeable as someone like Rex, but I can tell you that the M&P just does not have as quality of a feel as the XDM or the XDS I shot at the range. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great gun and I feel comfortable now that it is fixed to use it as a concealed carry piece…but I wish I had shot that XDS before I bought this one, that’s all I am going to say.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - Apoc - 11-18-2012
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Don’t get me wrong it’s a great gun and I feel comfortable now that it is fixed to use it as a concealed carry piece…
Coulda fooled me, based on this thread. Seems like you aren't very happy with it.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - Evan - 11-18-2012
its really not a fair comparison to compare the internals of the XDM to the shield. shield is by design meant to be thinner and lighter and isnt going to be as burly.
btw, Lee Im selling my N2Tactical pro XDM holster if youre interested.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 11-19-2012
Not necessarily Chris, it's just like buying a Corvette sight unseen, liking how it drives but then the trunk leaks and you realize it's a cheaply made American plastic pos. Thanks Evan, i have the viridian strobe laser so i don't think it will fit normal holsters
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 11-19-2012
WRXtranceformed Wrote:I’m being nitpicky I know
You are being nitpicky. As Chris said, it's not fair to compare the fullsize XD with the sub-compact Shield. Time for some Education.
Case in point, your recoil spring nitpick.
WRXtranceformed Wrote:You can see how thin and “wobbly” the spring is here. It does not have a tight fit at all
You'll notice, if you look carefully, that the Shield spring is a "flat" spring, while the XD has a "wire" spring. this isn't because flat springs are cheaper, they're more expensive. A flat spring allows a much smaller "fully compressed" size without binding. This allows you to run a longer spring with less pressure, while storing the same amount of energy. It doesn't have a tight fit around the recoil rod because the spring expands (slightly) in diameter as it compresses...if it were "tight" around the recoil rod at full expansion, there is a chance it could bind on the recoil rod itself as it cycled. By having it loose in diameter, you can avoid this problem. This was an engineering choice, not a cost one.
Similarly, your gripe about the "thin" metal where the recoil rod meets the barrel lug...you know that's just for ease of assembly/disassembly, right? The recoil rod only touches the barrel when it's fully in battery. That "notch" is there just to make it easy for you to put the gun back together. For actual operation of the gun, the recoil rod interfaces with the frame. The 1911, for example, requires you to insert and remove the recoil spring from the front of the gun, because that notch doesn't exist. As long as it stays long enough for you to assemble the gun, the "notch" has done its job. How well it stays on the barrel or solidly clicks in doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
WRXtranceformed Wrote:First (this is nitpicky), my XDM came with its own case, two mags, a lock, a speed loader, a holster and a magazine holster. The shield came with two mags and a lock in a cardboard box.
I'm trying not to hate, really I am not, but all that stuff is crap. The speed loader is hard to use, the case is junk, as is the holster. I'm glad my Shield (or either of my M&P's) didn't come with any of that stuff, because it would just sit in the box until I sold it. I mean, it's cool that they ship with extras, I guess. But frankly, I'd rather save money on the gun than have junk I'll never use. Also, don't store your gun in a closed-foam container. It'll just trap moisture.
WRXtranceformed Wrote:XDM Mags - The metal is much higher quality, the spring moves smoothly and these "seat" much more rewardingly than the shield mags.
I don't know how you define quality, unless it's by albedo, but comparing my mother's old XD mags to my M&P mags, they were about the same. Pretty sure the XD mags are made by Mec Gar, which is decent, but again you're comparing the S&W Shield to the XD...not the M&P to the XD. The Shield mags are a totally different design from the M&P mags, they're single stack, and should have thicker feed lips. Oddly, single stack magazines are actually more difficult to properly design than double stack mags. You'd think stacking one on top of the other would actually be easy, but turns out it's not. (Which is why there's so many shitty 1911 mags out there.) So S&W went with a modification of their "bodyguard" mag, which was an evolution of the old 3rd gen s&w single stack mags, which were great. Again, you're comparing apples to oranges.
As far as your internals "comparison"...I'm not sure what you're getting at. Looks the same to me. :dunno: God help you if you ever look under the hood of a Glock.
It's no secret I am *not* a fan of the XD line. A, because every time I write "XD" I can't help but picture a dude laughing. B, because I like guns made by countries I'd actually like to visit. They aren't bad guns, per se, but I've spent a goodly amount of time behind the trigger of an XD 9, and I'm not impressed. Not particularly impressed by any striker gun to be honest, but the grip angle, the weird and stupid grip safety, and the "pattern" of the plastic in the grip all led me to have the XD be pretty much "just this side of the bottom" when it comes to polymer framed pistols. They tend to work, though. So I'll give them that. If you're happy, I'm happy.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - Mike - 11-19-2012
You had me at "bodyguard."
![[Image: Whitney-Houston-The-Bodyguard.jpg]](http://blogs.villagevoice.com/dailymusto/Whitney-Houston-The-Bodyguard.jpg)
S&W 4 lyfe! Or when comparing against XD garbaaaage.
Unbreak my heart, bitches.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 11-19-2012
I put bodyguard in quotes because the Shield really seems like the lovechild between this:
![[Image: 109380_01_md.jpg]](http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/109380_01_md.jpg)
(the S&W .380 Bodyguard)
and this:
![[Image: 109004_large.jpg]](http://guns4u.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/109004_large.jpg)
(the M&P9c)
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 11-19-2012
Had another friend test the S&W, XDM and a Sig at the range two weeks ago and he chose the XDM out of the three. By far the most accurate and easiest to shoot...and I don't need to go into how ridiculously accurate and smooth the modded XDM for IDPA that I shot was. If you spend some time on the S&W forums, you'll start to see a lot of hate creeping to the surface...especially surrounding the shield. Just sayine! If you make it back down this way, let's hit the range and I bet you'll change your mind with mine
The shield is going to remain my ccw but I will take it as a learning lesson to fire more guns when I am looking at different brands. Or if anyone is interested in it, I would consider flipping it to pick up an XD-S!
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - Apoc - 11-19-2012
Unruffle my jimmies.
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Or if anyone is interested in it, I would consider flipping it to pick up an XD-S!
That's not the sign of someone who loves the gun! :wink:
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 11-19-2012
WRXtranceformed Wrote:By far the most accurate and easiest to shoot...and I don't need to go into how ridiculously accurate and smooth the modded XDM for IDPA that I shot was.
Shoot a lot of IDPA, do you?
No?
Neither do any other XD shooters:
![[Image: image.axd?picture=2012%2f4%2fIDPA+World+...kers-2.gif]](http://www.idpa.com/blog/image.axd?picture=2012%2f4%2fIDPA+World+Shoot+Gun+Makers-2.gif)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.idpa.com/blog/post/2012/04/20/Glock-and-SW-Make-Up-67-of-IDPA-World-Shoot-Guns.aspx">http://www.idpa.com/blog/post/2012/04/2 ... -Guns.aspx</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://gunnuts.net/2011/11/28/idpa-world-championship-equipment/">http://gunnuts.net/2011/11/28/idpa-worl ... equipment/</a><!-- m -->
Gee, somebody picked a fullsize 9mm over a subcompact .40 as more accurate an easier to shoot? Wow, I would have figured the lighter, higher recoil, shorter sight radius and more difficult to control gun would have been the clear winner. :roll:
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 11-19-2012
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Gee, somebody picked a fullsize 9mm over a subcompact .40 as more accurate an easier to shoot? Wow, I would have figured the lighter, higher recoil, shorter sight radius and more difficult to control gun would have been the clear winner. :roll:The choice over an OMGZSig was what surprised me.
Quote:"In 2006, the industry press awarded the XD-45 the title of Handgun of the Year from both American Rifleman magazine and The Shooting Industry Academy of Excellence. The XD(M) series of pistols won Handgun of the Year again in 2009."
H8 on~~~
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 11-19-2012
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Quote:"In 2006, the industry press awarded the XD-45 the title of Handgun of the Year from both American Rifleman magazine and The Shooting Industry Academy of Excellence. The XD(M) series of pistols won Handgun of the Year again in 2009."
H8 on~~~
You know what won the NRA Tactical Handgun of the Year that year? The SIG P250. AKA, the worst gun Sig ever made. I have it on good authority that the P250 engineers were taken behind the woodshed and shot. I'd pick an XD every time over a P250. (You didn't say what kind of SIG your friend chose the XD over...was it a P250?)
In 2010, the NRA Handgun of the Year was the Taurus 710. In 2007 it was the Taurus Judge for fuck's sake. Forgive me if I don't put a whole lot of stock into who gave the NRA the biggest donation in a given year.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 11-19-2012
CaptainHenreh Wrote:You know what won the NRA Tactical Handgun of the Year that year? The SIG P250. AKA, the worst gun Sig ever made. I have it on good authority that the P250 engineers were taken behind the woodshed and shot. I'd pick an XD every time over a P250. (You didn't say what kind of SIG your friend chose the XD over...was it a P250?)
In 2010, the NRA Handgun of the Year was the Taurus 710. In 2007 it was the Taurus Judge for fuck's sake. Forgive me if I don't put a whole lot of stock into who gave the NRA the biggest donation in a given year.
IIRC it was a 9mm P225. Looked like this but newer:
![[Image: 1287724366.jpg]](http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/handguns/switzerland/1287724366.jpg)
On an awesome note, I am leaving in half an hour to get printed for my CWP
I can't remember if I walk out with it today or not. But I feel special.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 11-19-2012
SIG P225's aren't made any more, so you'll have to define "newer". All P225's looked pretty much like that from the '70's on. Aluminum frame, steel slide. Did you mean a 229?
Either way, you're still comparing a compact to a full size, not that it really matters. An XD is a fine gun if you like it, I guess. I just think your grips with the Shield are either not grips at all or directly related to buying it in .40S&W which no one should do. (Mostly, because .40S&W sucks balls and I hate it. :-p)
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 11-19-2012
CaptainHenreh Wrote:SIG P225's aren't made any more, so you'll have to define "newer". All P225's looked pretty much like that from the '70's on. Aluminum frame, steel slide. Did you mean a 229?The Sig is full size? My XDM is compact
Either way, you're still comparing a compact to a full size, not that it really matters. An XD is a fine gun if you like it, I guess. I just think your grips with the Shield are either not grips at all or directly related to buying it in .40S&W which no one should do. (Mostly, because .40S&W sucks balls and I hate it. :-p)
Well that, and the fact that the mags were dropping out and it was stovepiping rounds right from the factory....
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - CaptainHenreh - 11-19-2012
WRXtranceformed Wrote:The Sig is full size? My XDM is compact
Well that, and the fact that the mags were dropping out and it was stovepiping rounds right from the factory....
If you've got the extended grip mags (and it looks like you do) then it's the same grip size as the fullsize. Point is, it isn't near the size of the Shield.
And yeah, your mag dropping out thing seems exclusive to .40.
Which sucks.
Dear everyone: Rex Hates .40S&W. Don't come crying about how your .40S&W gun is snappy or doesn't work right or is expensive to feed. I have no sympathy for you. Don't buy a .40.
Re: Official MM Firearms Thread - WRXtranceformed - 11-19-2012
Lee hates the CWP process in NC. Definitely not quick and definitely not cheap
CWP class - $75-$100
Set appointment with county sheriff's office in the middle of the city and wait a month
Pay for parking in the middle of the city
Fill out more paperwork, fingerprint and pay $90.00 (cash only, annoying) for permit and $20.00 for mental health and background checks
Wait 2-3 months
Pay for parking again in the middle of the city
Pick up permit in person
Pay to laminate permit because they don't laminate it for you
Repeat park & pay process again in 5 years