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+--- Thread: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 (/showthread.php?tid=10604)
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - JustinG - 01-30-2017
Easy button for every car on the planet - Revalved Koni Yellows and GC Coilovers with Custom Spring rates.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - D_Eclipse9916 - 01-30-2017
![[Image: 23266068.jpg]](https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder68/500x/23266068.jpg)
rherold9 Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:When will you learn and get decent shocks. Trash trash trash, I wouldn't wish BCs on anyone
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What do you recommend?
I'm not about to drop 4 grand on AST's for this car when it will be a TT car for a few years than retired for probably an HC car. It just doesn't make sense. They don't make many options for this car that you can get custom springs and valving. At least with the DR's are digressive dampened and can be custom valved and spring rated. Obviously not going to be ast, moton, penske level but is better than most options for this car that I can find. Most options are super soft springs in the rear
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ASTs perform well but are GARBAGE. They handle well "enough" but their reliability for track stuff is ridiculous. The best quote ever from AST when a friend tried to warranty his ASTs the second time they blew (and they blow a lot). "Using curbing is unneccessary and rough treatment on the shocks, these shocks are not built to handle that type of abuse". "Track-proven" my ass.
Revalved Konis or take apart a set of Bilsteins and build those custom. All this "cheap coilover" crap is well...crap. Stop reading fanboi forum pages and advertising links and see what real racers (not HPDE guys or time attack sponsored YO) guys run.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - *insertusernamehere* - 01-30-2017
Why not just sell the Mazda now and get a honduh? Why keep running it if it's not what you ultimately want to track? All the suspension effort/money could be better put towards that and be better long term, no?
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - D_Eclipse9916 - 01-30-2017
Bro its about turning something something something into not crap something something something. I dunno, I just kind of tuned those comments out
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 01-30-2017
Good deal. I'll revalve the Konis. That's easy button then getting a whole new kit. I guess I'll stick it out with the top hats to be on the safe side. The 7.2k/9.8k rates are solid for the tires I'm on. Initially understeer with neutral to oversteer off throttle tendency on mid corner to exit. The rates also don't upset the car over curbing. Matt and Christina both said the car felt fine the way it is. I would personally like a bit more oversteer in the rear but that's just me... Dunno.
Who on the east coast revalves yellows? I'll just send them to Koni if someone locally doesn't revalve
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Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - JustinG - 01-30-2017
Quote:OTHER KONI AUTHORIZED REBUILD FACILITIES
In addition to the KONI Service Center in Hebron, KY,
there are three KONI authorized rebuild facilities in
North America. They are TrueChoice in Hilliard, OH
(888-566-4722), Pro Parts West in Canoga Park,
CA (818-888-8904), and Performance Shock Inc.
@ Infineon Raceway in Sonoma, CA(800-965-5664).
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.koniracing.com/services.cfm">http://www.koniracing.com/services.cfm</a><!-- m -->
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - D_Eclipse9916 - 01-30-2017
JustinG Wrote:Quote:OTHER KONI AUTHORIZED REBUILD FACILITIES
In addition to the KONI Service Center in Hebron, KY,
there are three KONI authorized rebuild facilities in
North America. They are TrueChoice in Hilliard, OH
(888-566-4722), Pro Parts West in Canoga Park,
CA (818-888-8904), and Performance Shock Inc.
@ Infineon Raceway in Sonoma, CA(800-965-5664).
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.koniracing.com/services.cfm">http://www.koniracing.com/services.cfm</a><!-- m -->
Call them up too. Lee is very very very personable. Koni gets my thumbs up
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 01-30-2017
JustinG Wrote:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=koni+rebuilding
FTFY
Didn't even bother to do a simple google search :thumbup:
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 01-31-2017
I was able to have a great and long conversation with Lee :thumbup:
Sum it up, for a harder-core DE car or TT cars the current valving is fine and should be fine and no need to service the struts/shocks as it isn't worth the cost. He said if this was a dedicated race car running slicks with 800-900 lbs/in rates to get them revalved.
If I plan to add more tire I can up the damping to close to max in the rear and 3/4 front and be fine with running rates upwards of 600-700 lbs/in. He said for now if you are unhappy with the way it has slight initial understeer is to bump up the rear damping from the 3/4th it is at and add another 1/8th of a turn. If you want more mid-corner oversteer bump up the stiffness of the rear sway. If you want more exit oversteer add more damping in the rear. He said it sounds like from the springs rates, sway bar size, tire grip, and car I'm in a good place the way everything is.
So time to buy drill bits and replace the top hats and keep on keeping on. I think I'll pick up some moog endlinks and go full stiff on the rear sway bar as well as add a hair of a turn of rear damping and I should be all set :thumbup: . Also going to need an alignment for the car. Fix this -2.5 rear camber and drop it down to -2 to hopefully add some more oversteer action.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - ScottyB - 01-31-2017
koni :thumbup: they are the market standard for "everyman" performance shocks for so long for a reason
rherold9 Wrote:Fix this -2.5 rear camber and drop it down to -2 to hopefully add some more oversteer action.
instead of pulling grip from one end, can you add grip to the other? is there any additional turn in or steady state grip you can wring out of the front via more camber/caster or sway stiffness? just looking at your avatar picture, you can see your rear tires have some hellacious grip going on and a good even contact area so its a shame to see you have to take that away.
you know your car best but just a thought
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 01-31-2017
ScottyB Wrote:instead of pulling grip from one end, can you add grip to the other? is there any additional turn in or steady state grip you can wring out of the front via more camber/caster or sway stiffness? just looking at your avatar picture, you can see your rear tires have some hellacious grip going on and a good even contact area so its a shame to see you have to take that away.
you know your car best but just a thought
I just don't know what I want or what is best. I've never driven another FWD car on track so I don't know if mine handles "well" per say vs another car. I may need someone to just get the tires up to temp and wail on it a bit to see what they would change or how my car is handling. Preferably someone with FWD experience and/or tracks/races FWD. Obviously any RWD guy will be like moar oversteer needs moarrrrr oversteer :dunno: . I like the way it feels on track overall just a small amount of times where I wish initial turn to mid corner had a bit more rotation? Not a crazy amount but a small amount when I come in trail braking. It will move towards neutral/oversteer off throttle if I don't get on it mid-corner and on but early entry is a bit lame. Jumping out of throttle mid-corner and on will rotate the car no problem. For the most part I'm flat out mid-corner to exit so nothing to change there as it doesn't plow super hard when in throttle and tracks out well.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - ScottyB - 01-31-2017
sounds like a bit more front camber might do you well for turn in....or possibly adding some rebound to the rear but that's more of the "taking grip away" thought process
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 02-01-2017
ScottyB Wrote:instead of pulling grip from one end, can you add grip to the other? is there any additional turn in or steady state grip you can wring out of the front via more camber/caster or sway stiffness? just looking at your avatar picture, you can see your rear tires have some hellacious grip going on and a good even contact area so its a shame to see you have to take that away.
you know your car best but just a thought
He'll need to change tires to add grip in any major way. He can add small amounts of overall grip with some alignment tweeking and possibly some spring rate changes (to go with the tires)... but there is only so much left in the car. once you have 100% of the "current" capable grip its very hard to add traction to one end of the care without taking it away from the other end (see alignment comment)
handling is a compromise between levels of traction and the driving style.
that all being said, since its a "new" chassis for most people to deal with, it probably has a little more than small amounts of grip to gain with the alignment.
there is a lot of voodoo with fwd cars, especially McStrut cars. "Loose is fast" is the over all concept... so his massive rear traction, without front traction, does mean squat. you want bigger rear spring rate, as big as the shocks will handle, and the smallest rear bar you can get away with. you also want to worry about castor in the front end... and its very dynamic with a mcstrut car.
there are a lot of guys playing with toe in on the rear, but thats with a double wishbone car. i'd set everything to a basic 0 castor, -2.5 camber, 1/8 toe out up front. 0 castor, -1-1.5 camber, and 0 toe out back. if you are close to that right now its time to make one change. if you dont have toe out up front, DO IT
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 02-01-2017
My plans are upping rear rebound the 1/8th of a turn first as it is already at 3/4th rebound. Then making rear bar full stiff if that rebound doesn't help on entry to mid corner.
Alignment plans were .1 toe out or 1/8. Whatever you prefer. Caster isn't adjustable stock. Camber isn't adjustable front but it's over -2.5
Rear plans are 0 toe and -2.0 camber.
Hopefully that adds a bit more rotation but doesn't over do it. You can really tell on the tires that they slide around on the rear a bit the way they are wearing on the center bar.
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Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - ScottyB - 02-01-2017
Kaan Wrote:if you dont have toe out up front, DO IT
all good points especially this one i forgot about. assuming you don't already run that much, some toe out should do great things to get the front end to react quicker on turn-in, even without any other changes.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 02-04-2017
Who is ready for a part out weekend soon? All the hard parts like roll bar, putting interior in, put stock header in, and swapping suspension? Going to make this quick so I don't decide against it and keep this thing.
Thinking Feb 18-19 or March 11-12? Will needs at least one set of extra hands. Anyone is welcome though
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Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - JustinG - 02-04-2017
rherold9 Wrote:Who is ready for a part out weekend soon? All the hard parts like roll bar, putting interior in, put stock header in, and swapping suspension? Going to make this quick so I don't decide against it and keep this thing.
Thinking Feb 18-19 or March 11-12? Will needs at least one set of extra hands. Anyone is welcome though
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Im free, just lemma know.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - davej - 02-04-2017
rherold9 Wrote:Who is ready for a part out weekend soon? All the hard parts like roll bar, putting interior in, put stock header in, and swapping suspension? Going to make this quick so I don't decide against it and keep this thing.
Thinking Feb 18-19 or March 11-12? Will needs at least one set of extra hands. Anyone is welcome though
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Bring it up to Turducken, we'll turn Chan loose with an impact after some RBV's. You'll be down to a shell in 2 hours.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - *insertusernamehere* - 02-04-2017
Lemme know when
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 02-07-2017
JustinG Wrote:Im free, just lemma know.
*insertusernamehere* Wrote:Lemme know when
Confirmed for Feb 18th-19th. OEM parts from parents on the way tomorrow.
You all ready for the fun? :mrgreen:
Now time to figure out how to get that pesky stripped (80-90% rounded) 02 sensor out of the header and we are all golden. Turbo socket or something else anyone can think of?