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+--- Thread: Official MM Firearms Thread (/showthread.php?tid=7712)
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- CaptainHenreh - 11-22-2008
I mostly shoot a modified Weaver stance, when shooting an automatic pistol, anyway.
- John - 11-22-2008
What do you all recommend for a good range 22 caliber pistol? I'd like to hone my skills a bit, and the 22 is a great economical option for such a task...
- CaptainHenreh - 11-22-2008
John Wrote:What do you all recommend for a good range 22 caliber pistol? I'd like to hone my skills a bit, and the 22 is a great economical option for such a task...
As much as it pains me to say, ruger makes the best target .22 pistols, although any can be purchased from a number of companies. Now, if it were *me* I'd get a 1911 with a .22lr conversion, then you get two pistols, you get lots of trigger time with your pistol, which is always good.
- JohnC - 11-22-2008
CaptainHenreh Wrote:As much as it pains me to say, ruger makes the best target .22 pistols, although any can be purchased from a number of companies. Now, if it were *me* I'd get a 1911 with a .22lr conversion, then you get two pistols, you get lots of trigger time with your pistol, which is always good.
I grew up with a Ruger Mk II - loved it and learned a lot shooting it. Between that and a 10/22, I can't think of a better way to learn to shoot.
- CaptainHenreh - 11-23-2008
JohnC Wrote:I grew up with a Ruger Mk II - loved it and learned a lot shooting it. Between that and a 10/22, I can't think of a better way to learn to shoot.
Yes but I hate hate hate Sturm, Ruger & Co.
- Feersty - 11-23-2008
So I live alone now in an apartment. What is a good handgun for home defense? I got to read up and get to know Texas gun laws as well.
Something 9mm?
- CaptainHenreh - 11-23-2008
HAULN-SS Wrote:why? i really like rugers, and have never had a problem with them...
Bill Ruger Wrote:No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun.
Feersty, if you live in an apartment, you should be very careful. Any bullet (even a .22) is capable of penetrating drywall with lethal force on the other side. Any handgun above 9mm is "good for home defense" but don't buy one if you don't intend to practice with it on a regular basis.
- CaptainHenreh - 11-24-2008
HAULN-SS Wrote:Don't they make house rounds that will pretty well shatter when they hit drywall?
You're probably thinking of the Glaser Safety Slug or some other kind of frangible round.
According to the Box 'o Truth a Glaser (in 9mm) will still penetrate 6 sheets of drywall before stopping. Sure, it's safeer, but there's no substitute for proper training and practice. If apartment buildings in Texas are anything like the construction of apartment buildings in NoVA, I wouldn't want to be on the other side of a wall when one of those was fired.
(Also, I'm completely ignoring the effectiveness of such a round. Alot of people claim most of the damage done by one of these rounds is either from the polymer tip or the case...it certainly doesn't meet FBI standards for penetration)
On the flip side, according to the FBI, .223 fired from a rifle has less risk of overpenetration than a 9mm JHP:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.steyraug.net/223forcqb.htm">http://www.steyraug.net/223forcqb.htm</a><!-- m -->
- Jeff - 11-24-2008
Isn't hornady TAP safe for 2 layers of drywall?
- Evan - 11-24-2008
a coworker's mom accidently fired a 9mm pistol while messing with it (drunk...
) and it went through her bed, through the floor/ceiling, through a TV and entertainment cabinet in the lower level, through the wall and into the garage where it hit the concrete slab.
- CaptainHenreh - 11-24-2008
TurboOmni08 Wrote:Isn't hornady TAP safe for 2 layers of drywall?
I would be completely shocked if this was the case. TAP is just a nice, reliable hollow point. If a Glaser (9mm) will go through 6 layers of drywall (that's three walls) then there's no way that a TAP will be stopped after 2.
- CaptainHenreh - 12-02-2008
Ol' Painless talks about defending yourself with a shotgun, and why a "pistol grip only" is retarded:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=789542">http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=789542</a><!-- m -->
- Apoc - 12-02-2008
That was pretty cool... but I went in thinking he was going to tell how to use it as a bat.
- CaptainHenreh - 12-02-2008
Apoc Wrote:That was pretty cool... but I went in thinking he was going to tell how to use it as a bat.
Well, I think one of the replies talked about *not* doing that (breaking down a door or hitting a BG with the butt of your rifle) because of the risk of firing when you don't want it to.
- rezarxt - 12-02-2008
You certainly dont want over penetration especially if you are in an apartment. But think of it this way.
If you are shooting someone, they most likely have a gun also. A shot or two to the center of mass will not always put someone down instantly. And you must put them down instantly if you want to avoid them being able to return fire. Just because Im in extreme pain doesnt mean I wont return a few rounds at whoever shot me on the way to the floor.
Keep that in mind. I would say 9mm is the smallest caliber you want to go. I would prefer .40 if I were you, even living in an apartment. But thats just me. Because when shit hits the fan, I'm thinking about saving my life and not worrying about whether the drywall will stop a bullet. Sounds selfish and I may be put in jail if it does injure/kill someone, but I would rather take my chances with it over penetrating then the badguy getting off a couple shots back at me on the way to the floor/while on the floor. Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6 is what they always say. GL
- CaptainHenreh - 12-03-2008
I wouldn't overthink it too much.
I'd be shocked if Feersty bought a gun.
On the flipside, I wonder if an FN FiveseveN would be good for an apartment, since the .223 seems to disintegrate when it strikes drywall (according to the FBI, anyway).
- Jeff - 12-03-2008
I dunno. The FiveseveN is supposed to be great for defeating body armor...I feel like it could defeat some drywall.
- CaptainHenreh - 12-03-2008
TurboOmni08 Wrote:I dunno. The FiveseveN is supposed to be great for defeating body armor...I feel like it could defeat some drywall.
Well, 2 points:
#1: Civilians can only get JHP ammo, (unless you roll your own) which isn't all that good at defeating much of anything.
#2: The 5.56 was found by the FBI to fragment pretty bad when it hits, well, anything at all (including drywall) at velocity. I don't know how true that is, bit it'd be even more true of the JHP, I should think.
I dunno, just thinking out loud. Maybe someone should send The BOT a FiveseveN and some rounds?
He tested .223 Ball, and it penetrates a bunch of stuff, but I can't find (at the moment) what happens when he does JHP's:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1_2.htm">http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1_2.htm</a><!-- m -->
- Jeff - 12-03-2008
Got like $1300? I mean, I've heard that 5.56 will shatter hitting 1/4in branch, so I could believe that it won't make it though drywall, but I just remember hearing so much about the FiveseveN being a cop killer.
- CaptainHenreh - 12-03-2008
TurboOmni08 Wrote:Got like $1300? I mean, I've heard that 5.56 will shatter hitting 1/4in branch, so I could believe that it won't make it though drywall, but I just remember hearing so much about the FiveseveN being a cop killer.
That's just those Brady Campaign whackjobs. Any body armor under class 3 is going to get penetrated by any rifle round and quite a few pistol rounds, the 5.7X28 being one of 'em. The brady campaign complained that the 5.7X28 could penetrate class IIA body armor, which is also defeated by anything larger than a .40S&W. That doesn't make a .357Magnum "Armor Piercing" or a "Cop Killer".
Andrew asked a good question:
Ginger Wrote:Why would a five seven round be able to penetrate armor
but not anything else?
Well, keep in mind that the FMJ ammo isn't available to civilians...you or me can only purchase the Hollow Point ammo from FN. The hollow points disintegrate pretty well when they hit something (like the glaser) so there's less risk of overpenetration and less risk of damage in the case of overpenetration, because the fragments have lost so much energy.