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- BLINGMW - 11-03-2008
SethM Wrote:This guy is a moron.
I'm not sure if you're kidding? But assuming you're not, the fed was never supposed to have anything to do with those things. Heck, I'm not even sure we should have public schools. But since we already do and likely will continue to, I'd rather see them be under state control too. The quality of public schooling continues to go down and I place most of the blame on teachers unions and the federal government.
As far as marriage goes, same thing, why would you want the fed involved?
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Am I a moron?He isn't, but you are. :bootyshake:
- Kaan - 11-03-2008
Again there is a clear line drawn... small vs. big government. The government was not here to solve all our problems, but to keep things organized and stay true to the constitution. At least that is my idea of it. Obviously the big government side has more they'd like to add.
In my eyes, the more the government controls the more we turn into mother Russia. The constitution gives the power to the people... and in my opinion the more the people want to give power to the government, the lazier our citizens have become. Why would the government need to help the poor if people were doing their part? Take personal responsibility and stop handing over your rights to the government.
- Dave - 11-03-2008
SethM Wrote:This guy is a moron.Do you have any idea how fucked up our education system has become thanks to the Federally mandated "No child left behind" statute? You have schools that are comprised of 90% poor, minority students that are expected to perform at the exact same levels as 99% upper class schools or BE SHUT DOWN. How about the pressure on good teachers who bust their ass to help their kids learn that risk losing their jobs b/c the children have poor home lives and the school's test scores are not at a 96% pass level which is being achieved by schools comprised almost entirely of households making $200k. Hrm, yeah, that sounds like government doing a lot of good for our education system.
I disagree with the idea of shutting down the public school system, but it is definitely in need of some major overhauls and fucking SUPPORT, rather than government edicts that do not accomodate or even take into consideration the constituents that they are affecting.
Kaan nailed it, in my opinion.
- Jewels - 11-03-2008
Dave Wrote:SethM Wrote:This guy is a moron.Do you have any idea how fucked up our education system has become thanks to the Federally mandated "No child left behind" statute? You have schools that are comprised of 90% poor, minority students that are expected to perform at the exact same levels as 99% upper class schools or BE SHUT DOWN. How about the pressure on good teachers who bust their ass to help their kids learn that risk losing their jobs b/c the children have poor home lives and the school's test scores are not at a 96% pass level which is being achieved by schools comprised almost entirely of households making $200k. Hrm, yeah, that sounds like government doing a lot of good for our education system.
I disagree with the idea of shutting down the public school system, but it is definitely in need of some major overhauls and fucking SUPPORT, rather than government edicts that do not accomodate or even take into consideration the constituents that they are affecting.
Kaan nailed it, in my opinion.
I think that at this point and time, no child of mine would enter the public school system. Now, those of you that know Rex know that we fully support homeschooling as a means to educate children. It doesnt' mean our children, if we choose to have any would be homeschooled. But people who think that homeschooled children are missing something in their education need to have a 5 minute discussion with my husband.
- Apoc - 11-03-2008
They do miss a bit of socialization and your husband is proof of that.
- Kaan - 11-03-2008
They'd miss a lot less socialization if you had them active in the community with volunteer work, with charity events, little league sports (if they want), etc. Its homeschooling with an overly sheltered life that causes that... just like going to public school with an overly sheltered life!
- Jewels - 11-03-2008
Kaan Wrote:They'd miss a lot less socialization if you had them active in the community with volunteer work, with charity events, little league sports (if they want), etc. Its homeschooling with an overly sheltered life that causes that... just like going to public school with an overly sheltered life!
Kaan's got it right.
- WRXtranceformed - 11-03-2008
All my buddies that were homeschoolers are weirdos and more than socially awkward. I'm not knocking homeschooling especially in some areas where public schools are laughable, I'm just pointing out an observation.
- DavidM - 11-03-2008
Exactly, the only other concern I have with homeschooling is the ultra conservative "bible schooling" rather than conforming to a more normalized curiculum. Again an issue that arrises from the choices of the parents rather than the system of home schooling.
- Apoc - 11-03-2008
Kaan Wrote:They'd miss a lot less socialization if you had them active in the community with volunteer work, with charity events, little league sports (if they want), etc. Its homeschooling with an overly sheltered life that causes that... just like going to public school with an overly sheltered life!
...and if more people did charity, we wouldn't need federally mandated charity! ZOMG it all fits together!
- Jewels - 11-03-2008
DavidM Wrote:Exactly, the only other concern I have with homeschooling is the ultra conservative "bible schooling" rather than conforming to a more normalized curiculum. Again an issue that arrises from the choices of the parents rather than the system of home schooling.
Please don't get me started on your "normalized curriculum". The government should not be able to tell me what I'm going to teach my child. If I choose to use a christian based curriculum like Christian Light, published right there in Harrisonburg am I not allowed to?
- DavidM - 11-03-2008
Jewels Wrote:DavidM Wrote:Exactly, the only other concern I have with homeschooling is the ultra conservative "bible schooling" rather than conforming to a more normalized curiculum. Again an issue that arrises from the choices of the parents rather than the system of home schooling.
Please don't get me started on your "normalized curriculum". The government should not be able to tell me what I'm going to teach my child. If I choose to use a christian based curriculum like Christian Light, published right there in Harrisonburg am I not allowed to?
Of course your allowed to legally, I would never presume to tell you what you can or cannot teach your child. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to having a religious element to education in any way (In private schools of course). In fact I think a lot of kids could stand to learn some religious based morals growing up, but at the same time preaching nothing but the Bible as fact does kids a disservice. The religious message needs to be partnered with a generally accepted curicullum that includes math, history and the sciences otherwise your kids will lack the essential knowledge they need to contribute to society.
- Kaan - 11-03-2008
Apoc Wrote:Kaan Wrote:They'd miss a lot less socialization if you had them active in the community with volunteer work, with charity events, little league sports (if they want), etc. Its homeschooling with an overly sheltered life that causes that... just like going to public school with an overly sheltered life!
...and if more people did charity, we wouldn't need federally mandated charity! ZOMG it all fits together!
ZOMG! sure it wouldnt all get fixed, but it would go a much longer way than relying on the government... and it might give someone a chance to socialize with people... and stop breeding lazy inconsiderate people!
When i was growing up, once a month my family would go to the homeless shelter to help feed the homeless. All the kitchen crew did was have to wash dishes... we brought enough food for everyone. I learned a lot from my time helping out. I met a lot of really interesting people with real problems... some of them trying to fix them, some of them still running from them.
My little brother and i used to do charity walks/runs etc. I cant tell you how many people from all background and political affiliations i've met doing that. We've raised a lot of money for all types of organizations... But its fun, its interesting, its social. You cant get 10k people together and not meet someone while you are there.
In general the way of life has changed. And it has not changed for the better. A childs level of social interaction doesnt have anything to do with where they go to school... it has everything to do with how you raise that child.
- JackoliciousLegs - 11-03-2008
I'll bite. Both sides here have good arguments. I've met some cool people that were home schooled, but I'd say that a lot (most from what I've seen) of those kids turn out somewhat socially disfunctional. It's not a conclusion. Just what I've seen. My kids (if I ever have 'em) are going to public school. It's forced social interaction all the time. It's preparation for a collaborative workplace. It's about all sorts of social education that you get just by being around people all the time.
- Apoc - 11-03-2008
FWIW Kaan, I was agreeing with you. I'd like to keep my $3600/year that goes to paying for other people's kids to go school. I'd much prefer to give to charity than be forced to do so by the government.
School did nothing to prepare me for the workplace and if anything, introduced hurdles to overcome. I think home school is correlated with lack of social skills but I think that's caused more by overprotective parents than actually missing out on being in school with kids.
- CaptainHenreh - 11-03-2008
DavidM Wrote:In fact I think a lot of kids could stand to learn some religious based morals growing up, but at the same time preaching nothing but the Bible as fact does kids a disservice. The religious message needs to be partnered with a generally accepted curicullum that includes math, history and the sciences otherwise your kids will lack the essential knowledge they need to contribute to society.
I would agree with you on that one, and I was homeschooled. But, uh, what's your point?
Virginia Law on Homeschooling Wrote:Parent Qualifications: File annual Notice of Intent (using a form or letter) and meet one of the following:
* Have a college degree and submit a description of a program of study;
* Use a curriculum from the list of programs pre-approved by the state;
* Describe a curriculum or program of study that includes the state's Standards of Learning for mathematics and language arts and show evidence that the parent is able to provide an adequate education for the child;
* File a religious exemption (once obtained, no further notice required);
* Be a state certified teacher and homeschool under the Tutor statute.
I know that's alot for you public schoolers to read, but basically it says that you have to have 4 years of education over the grade you which to teach, unless you have a religious exemption to this requirement OR you want to teach a state-approved curriculum. In Virginia, approximately 30% of families choose the religious exemption.
Don't miss that part. That means by far that families who homeschool do NOT do so with the religious exemption, and must therefore meet one of the other State requirements for the student's curriculum. But, that's just to meet the requirements TO TEACH AT HOME. After you meet those requirements, you have:
VA Law on Homeschooling Wrote:Testing: Choose one of the following:
* Submit results of standardized achievement test by August 1. Parent may choose test, administrator, location and date, subject to approval of local superintendant. (Stanford 9 is the only test they *must* accept.) Child must score above the 4th stanine (23rd percentile).
* Portfolio review by local superintendent's office or reviewer (superintendent has some say in who may qualify to review). Usually, reviewers look for evidence of having met the Standards of Learning set by the state.
* Independent assessment by certified teacher, who sends a letter stating that s/he believes the child has achieved an adequate level of educational growth and progress.
So, even after you meet the (admittedly, not super stringent) requirements for teaching your child at home, your child must still pass standardized test which include (gasp!) science, mathematics, etc.
Now, regarding socialization. If you rely on the public school system to socialize your child, I'm going to suggest that maybe you should re-evaluate your stance. I mean, I guess if you want your child to be a little thug hoodrat, then be my guest, send 'em to public school. Now, you might find a higher degree of socially dysfunctional individuals being homeschooled, but let's all say it together children: Correlation != Causation. Schools are simply not equipped to deal with anything other than the status quo, and many children with mild autism or asbergers or something like that simply don't do well in school, and alot of parents notice this and take them out. And, yes, there are some whackjob parents out there who overshelter their children and turn them into social retards. But that's not the fault of homeschooling. I was plenty "socialized" having never gone to high school, and I did just fine in college at 16 years old.
Homeschooling is not for everyone. It is not a silver bullet for education. But the Department of Education hasn't done any students any favors, and I'm all for tossing it in the waste bin, right behind the Fed.
- SethM - 11-03-2008
Oh wait, you were homeschooled? Wow...you have to be messed up.
- DavidM - 11-03-2008
Just expanding on my original post. Wanted to explain my logic since i got semi-flamed on my post.
- Jewels - 11-03-2008
SethM Wrote:Oh wait, you were homeschooled? Wow...you have to be messed up.
I think you are a little out of line. There is no need for you to attack people. You don't even know Rex. Apparently he's done something right in his education because he can form a proper argument.
- CaptainHenreh - 11-03-2008
I'm sure SethM was just joking. Right, SethM?