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+--- Thread: Will it fly? (/showthread.php?tid=6807)
- Evan - 12-20-2007
no derek. you push the hotwheels car and the speed of the treadmill is not increased, because there is no force on the treadmill to move it faster.
- CaptainHenreh - 12-20-2007
HAULN-SS Wrote:Look..I KNOW the thrusters push against the air. That's not the point. The point is that the plane has to have some sort of forward relative motion. If you put a hotwheels car on the treadmill, and use your finger to push it forward, but all the harder you push, the treadmill speed is also increased. The car NEVER moves forward on the treadmill. If it started out 2 feet from the front of the treadmill, no matter what, it will still be 2 feet from the front of the treadmill. The wheels aren't propelling the car - your finger is, and you're not a part of the treadmill system. With no forward motion, the plane can't fly.
You're retarded.
- WRXtranceformed - 12-20-2007
HAULN-SS Wrote:Look..I KNOW the thrusters push against the air. That's not the point. The point is that the plane has to have some sort of forward relative motion. If you put a hotwheels car on the treadmill, and use your finger to push it forward, but all the harder you push, the treadmill speed is also increased. The car NEVER moves forward on the treadmill. If it started out 2 feet from the front of the treadmill, no matter what, it will still be 2 feet from the front of the treadmill. The wheels aren't propelling the car - your finger is, and you're not a part of the treadmill system. With no forward motion, the plane can't fly.
That's kind of the way that I've been looking at it too. Sure the wheels aren't propelling it, the jet engine is, but the wheels are what allow the jet engine to cause the plane to get up to speed. Wind needs to be forced against the wings to create lift, and that's not going to happen unless the plane actually moves from point A to point B within a certain amount of time.
- WRXtranceformed - 12-20-2007
Evan Wrote:no derek. you push the hotwheels car and the speed of the treadmill is not increased, because there is no force on the treadmill to move it faster.
I thought the whole thing was that the treadmill was matching the speed of the wheels? Or was that in the example that Rex posted up? If the treadmill wasn't automatically matching the speed, sure the plane would fly no problem.
- HAULN-SS - 12-20-2007
Apparently all of you people who voted yes don't understand the problem. Obviously if the treadmill doesn't have the ability to go infinitely fast, the plane can take off. If The plane needs 88mph to take off, and the treadmill is rolling in reverse at 4mph, then all the plane has to do is give it the same power as if were going to go 92mph, then it takes off. This is not much of a problem at all if the treadmill can't go as fast as it needs to go. That's where you all fail at knowing the problem
- Evan - 12-20-2007
the treadmill cannot match speed. the treadmill has no bearing on the speed of the airplane.
like RJ said, the treadmill is essentially a red herring.
- Ginger - 12-20-2007
So, uhm, by that logic, a hovercraft shouldn't move.
And it does.
- Ginger - 12-20-2007
HAULN-SS Wrote:Apparently all of you people who voted yes don't understand the problem. Obviously if the treadmill doesn't have the ability to go infinitely fast, the plane can take off. If The plane needs 88mph to take off, and the treadmill is rolling in reverse at 4mph, then all the plane has to do is give it the same power as if were going to go 92mph, then it takes off. This is not much of a problem at all if the treadmill can't go as fast as it needs to go. That's where you all fail at knowing the problem
I'm glad you can add.
But you're still a retard who doesn't get it.
- BLINGMW - 12-20-2007
HAULN-SS Wrote:The point is that the plane has to have some sort of forward relative motion.
The problem you're having, which many do with this problem, is that you're thinking of GROUND SPEED, which is irrelevant to how a plane flies. Once in the air, a plane could have 0 ground speed, even negative, but because of the wind, it maintains its AIR SPEED and continues to fly. I'm sure we all know this, so I don't mean to sound condescending, I just have to start somewhere.
In this case, the plane will still move forward, achieve the necessary airspeed for take off, and off it goes, regardless of how fast the treadmill runs, be it in forward or reverse. The treadmill will ONLY influence the speed of the wheels, and the plane will take off as if it were a normal runway. If you were standing in the terminal watching the whole thing, you might not even notice the treadmill. The plane would build speed and take off like normal relative to you.
Don't feel bad, this riddle trips everyone up.
- HAULN-SS - 12-20-2007
Lol, I really hope they are doing this on mythbusters...I can't wait til you all have egg on your faces.
- Evan - 12-20-2007
Dear Derek,
Please neuter yourself.
Sincerely,
The Human Race
- HAULN-SS - 12-20-2007
The only speed I am thinking of, sir, is the speed of the wind over the wing. The SINGLE most important factor in airplane technology.
- Ginger - 12-20-2007
HAULN-SS Wrote:Lol, I really hope they are doing this on mythbusters...I can't wait til you all have egg on your faces.
I know it doesn't have a big GM V8, but does that really mean you can't get it? It doesn't need Mythbusters, christ. You just have to be not dense to understand.
You haven't even developed a coherent argument.
- HAULN-SS - 12-20-2007
Also - do explain how an airplane flying in a horizontal plain could have zero ground speed. If I dropped a plumb bob from the airplane all the way to the ground, the plumb bob would be moving across the earth at all times in an airplane. If this was not the case, we would never have needed to develop helicopters. And, for the sake of argument, lets say it's a calm day. Yes I realize that a gliding airplane could be in a jetstream, staying aloft, and not having any movement across land. By your theory though, this should be able to happen at 8 feet off the ground, as well as 28,000 feet.
- G.Irish - 12-20-2007
HAULN-SS Wrote:Lol, I really hope they are doing this on mythbusters...I can't wait til you all have egg on your faces.Care to make a wager on this? How about dinner at Fogo de Chao? (hands off fools, I bet him first!)
- HAULN-SS - 12-20-2007
G.Irish Wrote:HAULN-SS Wrote:Lol, I really hope they are doing this on mythbusters...I can't wait til you all have egg on your faces.Care to make a wager on this? How about dinner at Fogo de Chao? (hands off fools, I bet him first!)
are they actually going to do it, or was that just a joke?
- BLINGMW - 12-20-2007
HAULN-SS Wrote:Also - do explain how an airplane flying in a horizontal plain could have zero ground speed. If I dropped a plumb bob from the airplane all the way to the ground, the plumb bob would be moving across the earth at all times in an airplane. If this was not the case, we would never have needed to develop helicopters.
if a plane is flying at 100MPH and the wind starts to blow 100MPH in the other direction, then the airspeed indicator would still show 100MPH. But the plane isn't actually going anywhere. No ground speed. As in, a plumb bob descended from the plane would not move.
- HAULN-SS - 12-20-2007
BLINGMW Wrote:HAULN-SS Wrote:Also - do explain how an airplane flying in a horizontal plain could have zero ground speed. If I dropped a plumb bob from the airplane all the way to the ground, the plumb bob would be moving across the earth at all times in an airplane. If this was not the case, we would never have needed to develop helicopters.
if a plane is flying at 100MPH and the wind starts to blow 100MPH in the other direction, then the airspeed indicator would still show 100MPH. But the plane isn't actually going anywhere. As in, a plumb bob descended from the plane would not move.
I edited my original post. Flying in a jet stream does not count. If we were in this theoretical treadmill, it would not be in the jet stream.
- Ginger - 12-20-2007
Don't you get it!? The treadmill is irrelevant!
- G.Irish - 12-20-2007
HAULN-SS Wrote:They are actually going to do it and I'm serious. You down?G.Irish Wrote:HAULN-SS Wrote:Lol, I really hope they are doing this on mythbusters...I can't wait til you all have egg on your faces.Care to make a wager on this? How about dinner at Fogo de Chao? (hands off fools, I bet him first!)
are they actually going to do it, or was that just a joke?