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- Dragon - 10-14-2004
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:how doesn't it, i said yes, they have. Clinton did for example. I know you reps love that I said that.It didn't cause you didn't say anything specific, you just made a generalized statement with no back-up. Saying Clinton did is a step in the right direction, but you haven't given a specific example.
- Evan - 10-14-2004
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Uhh... yes... actually, they have. It makes them a stronger person. Not owning up to your own mistakes is pigheaded.HAH!
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."
It took being impeached and a boatload of proof for that guy to admit what he did.
Quote: Bush was asked DIRECTLY if he had made any mistakes... and of course, moved the question elsewhere... EXACTLY like he did SO many times last night. I was about to go ballistic because of how many times he said "no child left behind is a success."Take the blinders off Jack, in the arena of question dodging, Kerry is king. I watched debate #2 with 2 kerry supporters and even they were screaming at him to answer the question. He didnt adress a single question, regressed to past topics before answering questions at hand, and when asked about his own plans and policy, he simply attacked the president's.
Kerry was in office for 20 years, where is his admission of mistakes. He voted against Gulf War #1, but where is his admission of being wrong?
- JackoliciousLegs - 10-14-2004
Clinton did admit he was wrong.
As far as dodging questions, you must've been watching with some wobbly kneed dems.
- .RJ - 10-14-2004
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Clinton did admit he was wrong.
Haha!
After how many months?
- JackoliciousLegs - 10-14-2004
how many will it take bush?
- Dragon - 10-14-2004
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Clinton did admit he was wrong.
.RJ Wrote:After how many months?
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:how many will it take bush?Another stupid arguement. Stick to facts kids and maybe you'll influence an undecided like myself.
- .RJ - 10-14-2004
Would be nice if the situation were resolved in iraq before the media circus started to point fingers "you're wrong!!!".
*shrug*
- Mike - 10-14-2004
weeeeeeeeeeee
- Evan - 10-14-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:you'd think that'd be the case, but then why did we sell arms to the taliban and iraq in the 80s?Global Politics 101
here is a primer:
Today, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Tomorrow, all bets are off, and the two are probably going to swap.
now, try applying that to the taliban situation in the 80s (hint: think Russia)
- Evan - 10-14-2004
.RJ Wrote:Would be nice if the situation were resolved in iraq before the media circus started to point fingers "you're wrong!!!".Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner!
*shrug*
The media and the american people are impatient, and entirely clueless about matters of formation of a new government.
The timeframe which we took Iraq from a takeover of a dictatorship to a interim psuedo-democracy and soon a true democracy is nothing short of amazing. Just look at WWII examples for reference.
- Evan - 10-14-2004
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:... and before he cut education funding...Blinders again Jacko.
The no child left behind act is a miserable attempt at education reform and he pulled too much money from education.
I see you are parroting Kerry's lines again, unfortunately for you, they have been repeatedly discredited even by liberal media sources.
Bush increased the Dept Of Education budget by 58%. And another 5% this fiscal year.
Funding for programs specific to the No Child Left Behind law have increased by $2.7 billion, since the new law was enacted.
The manipulative Kerry claims lie in Bush not using all of the maximum allowed funding approved by congress.
and to touch on your point about sanctions working (repeat of another disproven Kerry claim) the Duelfer report did not conclude that the sanctions worked, like Kerry claimed.
- .RJ - 10-14-2004
IBT4IAR!
- Maengelito - 10-14-2004
damnit458 Wrote:An interesting fact to go along with Jack's statement about taking money from education
The United States spends over 600 Billion dollars a year on the military.
The next closest country spends something like 200 billion.
If we literally cut our military spending by 200 billion we would still have a stronger military than anyone in the world, and probably enough money to have an all-inclusive welfare/health coverage policy....
edit: not attributing this to bush, just showing that for a long time our military has been recieving immense amounts of money that could easily go towards better causes.
i'm not saying that selling arms is the only reason some countries didnt participate in a coalition effort. there are millions of reasons some of which we know, most of which we probably dont know. a major one is economic support to and from the region. if you think that many societies are not run by money, then you are very naive. its not pretty, but its true. and figures that show we spend hundreds of billions of dollars on our military doesnt mean we have hundreds of billions of dollars worth of just bullets and bombs. it means you have a longer lasting battery in your cell phone, it means cars have ceramic brakes, it means your camcorder has night vision, it means most of us that work for the military or work for contractors (evan, john, kaan, RJ, gerald) have jobs and more importantly to us, race cars. and yes, it means we've got lots of bullets and bombs too.
- JessicaRabbit79 - 10-14-2004
.RJ Wrote:JackoliciousLegs Wrote:because of how many times he said "no child left behind is a success."
Depends on how you define success.
You cant fix that problem in just a few years. IMO, its a success if they are significantly better off than they were when they started and still continuing to move in the right direction.
Kerry said that hte % improvement doenst matter if you didnt get the job done - which is true, but he still did not offer any alternative plan.
Gentlemen... I have tried to stay out of the political discussion thus far, but here is where I have to put in my .02
"No Child Left Behind" is the worst turn that American education has taken in recent memory. Ask any teacher (believe me, being an educator, I've had many a discussion about this topic), and they will tell you that it is absurd to expect a child with mental handicaps to perform to the level of an honors student. Yes, we need to make sure that every student gets an excellent education. Yes, we need to make sure that schools are responsible for their students' and teachers' performance. However, the way that W's plan goes about it is less than stellar.
I have my opinions on standardized testing... worst way to judge learning evAr... and "No Child Left Behind" is the epitome of standardized. One of the biggest things that you learn when you are training to be a teacher is that every student is different, learns differently, tests differently. Some students are simply not able to perform to the level of others. In these cases, you change your way of thinking for these students, and set them up for success by making sure that they can succeed, each in their own way. It is absurd to ask that every child in the US get molded into this crazy "plan" for success. Talk about a slippery slope into disaster.
The final goal of "NCLB" is honorable, to make sure that every student performs to their best, but the way that it is set up basically guarantees failure. The plan needs some tweaking, and Kerry is aware of that. If you would care to peruse his website, he lays out the specific reasons that the plan is not working, and the changes that he will make to fix the problems. Sure, it needs more funding, but it needs to be fixed before we pour more money into it. You wouldn't flush money down the toilet...
As far as the rest of this 'hyah discussion, I continue to bite my tongue... but I wanted to set the record straight about the problems with NCLB. That is all.
- G.Irish - 10-14-2004
JessicaRabbit79 Wrote:As far as the rest of this 'hyah discussion, I continue to bite my tongue... but I wanted to set the record straight about the problems with NCLB. That is all.
Thanks for the info it is much appreciated. I suspected as much about NCLB but at least everyone agrees something needs to be done about public education in the US.
Military spending. One could look at things from the perspective "Look we spent $200 billion on bombs and bullets when we could've spent it on something else" and you'd be partially right. However, as Maeng stated military/federal spending drives a significant portion of our economy.
More than that, the relative security we live with today is a result of our strong military complex. We take it for granted but in the last century there were only maybe 3 countries that could truly threaten our sovereignty. What does that mean? It means that we don't really have to bow down to anyone. For the most part we are free to conduct ourselves in the manner we choose without fear of retaliation from anyone else. Now that's not to say we should abuse this privilege...
We can certainly afford to spend less money on our military and achieve the same goals. Right now we are wasting a lot of money on weapons systems that were part of the cold war strategy that don't really have a place in today's environment (F22, Crusader, V22, Virginia Class submarines). In the coming wars we're going to need very highly developed infantry which means we will have to focus on the impact every soldier has on the battlefield. We're not going to be able to sit back and launch cruise missiles or drop laser bombs on terrorist hiding among the populace in the urban shootouts we will no doubt have in the future.
Which candidate has the best vision for the military in the future? Hard to say. I think both will have a difficult time saying no to the whiz bang weapons on the table today (what's not to like about the $300 million per copy F22 Raptor?). Hopefully whoever gets elected realizes that we are going to really have to restructure and spend a lot more time and energy equipping and training our infantry.
- .RJ - 10-14-2004
Jess raises a good point. Just because I'd side towards one candidate does not mean that I think everything they have done, or has proposed is right and the other candidate is flat out wrong.
Kerry makes some good points, and there are some parts of Bush's agenda that I dont agree with. But we vote for the candidate that we think is best prepared to lead our country.
- Maengelito - 10-15-2004
.RJ Wrote:Jess raises a good point. Just because I'd side towards one candidate does not mean that I think everything they have done, or has proposed is right and the other candidate is flat out wrong.
i agree. i think its fairly obvious that i'm more of a bush supporter than a kerry supporter, but i disagree with a lot of republican ideals. ah well, i'm pretty hungover right now though.
- ScottyB - 10-15-2004
i'm voting for Samuel Adams! always a good decision! woooooo
- GQROB - 10-15-2004
Me too
Great argument guys.
Quote: it means most of us that work for the military or work for contractors (evan, john, kaan, RJ, gerald) have jobs and more importantly to us, race cars. and yes, it means we've got lots of bullets and bombs too.
- Kaan - 10-15-2004
MM = Government Contractor BLING OFF!