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+--- Thread: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 (/showthread.php?tid=10604)
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-18-2015
15x8 you have options... but still not many.
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Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Tuner says notate power fall off after 6800 because of head flow....says 8000rpm will give you a couple ponies...huh? Those are contradictory statements.
No you can't just raise limiter and increase power. We were talking about a cam upgrade I mentioned with the increase in redline to 8500 as well which will help the head flow better.
Yes there is a lot of stuff to pay attention to when upgrading to a cam. He says doing the supercharger is the better idea (obviously) but you know boost points and stuff take a toll on points.
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:And do you really "need" hp? Doing a dyno reclass actually doesn't help a lot of the times. Before you go down this path, contact Greg Greenbaum and ask at your weight how much "max" hp you can make to stay at a certain point level. Back in 2010 when I requested mine, it was actually lower than what I could get with points so I didn't go that path. It is dependent on the car and Greenbaums mood that day.
The lowest weight to power I can do in TTE is 16.50
The max power I can do to be higher than 16.50 weight to power at 2800 pounds is 169.69whp.
My weight to power with ~150whp (I really need to get on an actual dyno. I'm putting down !180hp to the crank on VDyno) and 2800pounds is 18.66.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
Kaan Wrote:15x8 you have options... but still not many.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.dsgperformance.com/Gram-Lights-57DR-Wheel-15-x-8-5-x-114-3-Offset-35">http://www.dsgperformance.com/Gram-Ligh ... -Offset-35</a><!-- m -->
Yeah I'm just going to say a 9"+ tire isn't really going to do well on an 8" wheel.
I guess I'll stick with 17s..... which really sucks. Definitely need some more power than if I have no gear options besides custom gears and no way to get down to smaller wheels and fit a 225 "slick".
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - D_Eclipse9916 - 11-18-2015
rherold9 Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Tuner says notate power fall off after 6800 because of head flow....says 8000rpm will give you a couple ponies...huh? Those are contradictory statements.
No you can't just raise limiter and increase power. We were talking about a cam upgrade I mentioned with the increase in redline to 8500 as well which will help the head flow better.
Yes there is a lot of stuff to pay attention to when upgrading to a cam. He says doing the supercharger is the better idea (obviously) but you know boost points and stuff take a toll on points.
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:And do you really "need" hp? Doing a dyno reclass actually doesn't help a lot of the times. Before you go down this path, contact Greg Greenbaum and ask at your weight how much "max" hp you can make to stay at a certain point level. Back in 2010 when I requested mine, it was actually lower than what I could get with points so I didn't go that path. It is dependent on the car and Greenbaums mood that day.
The lowest weight to power I can do in TTE is 16.50
The max power I can do to be higher than 16.50 weight to power at 2800 pounds is 169.69whp.
My weight to power with ~150whp (I really need to get on an actual dyno. I'm putting down !180hp to the crank on VDyno) and 2800pounds is 18.66.
Miniminum weight to power is NOT what you will get in a dyno reclass. It is the lowest limit of the class. He would give that to an SUV that cant handle. You will more likely get between 17-18.
Also with boost it will require a dyno reclass (not points), and will most likely pop you higher. I know this rule set is kind of confusing.
If the head won't flow any more than 6800, a cam will not fix that. Going from 6800-8000rpm is a large difference and your intake manifold/head ports/valve size just are not made for it. At most you willl probably extend your powerband another 4-500rpm with a cam change. NOT 1000-1200rpm. A cam change to get a bit more power under your current curve would probably help though, but it sure isnt cheap.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Miniminum weight to power is NOT what you will get in a dyno reclass. It is the lowest limit of the class. He would give that to an SUV that cant handle. You will more likely get between 17-18.
Also with boost it will require a dyno reclass (not points), and will most likely pop you higher. I know this rule set is kind of confusing.
If the head won't flow any more than 6800, a cam will not fix that. Going from 6800-8000rpm is a large difference and your intake manifold/head ports/valve size just are not made for it. At most you willl probably extend your powerband another 4-500rpm with a cam change. NOT 1000-1200rpm. A cam change to get a bit more power under your current curve would probably help though, but it sure isnt cheap.
Hmm. Yeah rules are a bit unclear for a newb.
I guess I'm not sure what else I can do to this car to make it that much faster besides a slightly better driver mod after tires and removing weight if I can't find smaller wheels. My weight to power is not very competitive for TTE more of a TTF car by removing some stuff it looks like. Even though I'm running good times right now somehow. TFF is 19.50 on weight to power
Ah, yeah that makes sense. Derp. Idk why I thinking that. That is what my tuner meant when he said build the engine. It's been a long week....
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-18-2015
i dont see where you "need" more power to compete... especially with more tire.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - D_Eclipse9916 - 11-18-2015
Kaan Wrote:i dont see where you "need" more power to compete... especially with more tire.
Most TTE cars I know are in the 130-150whp range... Talk to Vincent Conte that used to wreck house in TTE with his miata.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-18-2015
dyno reclass supercharged miata with hoohoos and coilovers if i remember corectly.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - D_Eclipse9916 - 11-18-2015
Just checked, PTE/TTE National Champion was a miata at 18.4 power/weight. If you are at 18.6, you are in the realm. Try to make a couple more ponies and focus on suspension/tires.
Edit: Remember the miata is a good-handling car. You might be able to get a mid-17 or low 17 dyno reclass with Greg Greenbaum.
For Reference sake, my TTC limit was 12:1. At Nationals, my car was making 231rwhp at 3176lb minimum weight. I ran more around 3200 for a cushion. Thats about 13.8 power to weight. Good handling cars should be nowhere near the class limit if Greenbaum is doing his job right.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-18-2015
what dyno are you guys going to for your NASA TT stuff?
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - D_Eclipse9916 - 11-18-2015
Kaan Wrote:what dyno are you guys going to for your NASA TT stuff?
Specified in the rules, Dynojet 248. I found the MachV dyno was consistent within 1-3whp of the at-track dyno.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
Oh okay. Huffman seemed all about getting down to the minimum weight to power if possible. But if 18s work then that's fine with me.
I don't know exact power numbers. $100 in Elkton to see a miserable ~150whp just my assumption based off crank power sounds depressing and wasteful lol. But, I'll have to do it anyways eventually.
I guess I'll have to get exact weight numbers and power sometime soon here so I don't have to keep bench racing. I definitely want to run a 225 or even a 235 slick if possible. I think DJ agreed that is best for me earlier.
SO, for now I'll stick with the simple build and I can always put my stock sway bar in later for -2 points for more tire or go back to stock camber arms for -1 for more tire
+22 tires (225/45/17 or 225/40/17)
+1 (225 vs 215 base tire)
+1 C4 (intake)
+5 C22 (header/cat/exhaust)
+3 E3 (Koni)
+2 E5 (ground controls)
+2 E7 (32MM rear sway bar)
+2 F1 (OEM big brake kit - speed3 front calipers and mazda5 rear calipers)
+1 trailing arms for alignment
is +40 points. So I need to get down to +39 to run a 225. So remove camber arms. i can get -1.5 natural rear camber easy. I can then remove either sway bar or go back down to stock brakes and go back to stock intake -3 so I can run a 235 +3
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Jake - 11-18-2015
Kaan Wrote:what dyno are you guys going to for your NASA TT stuff?
I went to Mach V.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
Jake Wrote:Kaan Wrote:what dyno are you guys going to for your NASA TT stuff?
I went to Mach V.
How much is Mach V for pulls?
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:For Reference sake, my TTC limit was 12:1. At Nationals, my car was making 231rwhp at 3176lb minimum weight. I ran more around 3200 for a cushion. Thats about 13.8 power to weight. Good handling cars should be nowhere near the class limit if Greenbaum is doing his job right.
Tell that to the TTE Integra.... lower than a 17.5 by a tiny amount supposedly
What do you recommend I do then?
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - D_Eclipse9916 - 11-18-2015
rherold9 Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:For Reference sake, my TTC limit was 12:1. At Nationals, my car was making 231rwhp at 3176lb minimum weight. I ran more around 3200 for a cushion. Thats about 13.8 power to weight. Good handling cars should be nowhere near the class limit if Greenbaum is doing his job right.
Tell that to the TTE Integra.... lower than a 17.5 by a tiny amount supposedly
What do you recommend I do then?
Before saying you are "getting crushed" tell Greg either your intended weight or intended horsepower and he will give you the other value.
Again, I was notating a miata, integras/fwd stuff will probably get a better break; but inferring stuff gets us nowhere. Ask Greenbaum.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-18-2015
Ryan you'll get an even bigger break with the Mazda 3 because its a McStrut car. I get penalized a little for being double wishbone.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-19-2015
Fuck college students who drive off and leave no info.
![[Image: 3309acb34bcdf308e64f88a19550d6d2.jpg]](http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/19/3309acb34bcdf308e64f88a19550d6d2.jpg)
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Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - JPolen01 - 11-19-2015
Is the bumper creased? Lucky for you it looks like your dip took must of the hit.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - *insertusernamehere* - 11-19-2015
Yay for dip!