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+--- Thread: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 (/showthread.php?tid=10604)
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - *insertusernamehere* - 11-13-2015
I cannot wait to start driving.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-13-2015
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:But yeah, 99% of you fuckers can do threshold braking; its not hard when you have ABS.
When I went in Maeng's car. Maeng be like "oh yeah ABS. Mmmm. Yes ABS" :lol: :lol:
Maeng approves of ABS.
*insertusernamehere* Wrote:I cannot wait to start driving.
:thumbup: Looking forward to more students getting out there. It's too much fun not to.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-17-2015
Option 1:
TTE as close to 2780lbs to low 2800lbs as possible. Basically would be the least amount of weight I could get without going lexan or carbon fiber shit.
+22 tires (225/45/17 or 225/40/17)
+1 (225 vs 215 base tire)
+1 C4 (intake)
+5 C22 (header/cat/exhaust)
+3 E3 (Koni)
+2 E5 (ground controls)
+2 E7 (32MM rear sway bar)
+2 F1 (OEM big brake kit - speed3 front calipers and mazda5 rear calipers)
+39 points and it is that simple. See how it goes for a bit. All these things I have on my car now except the tires.
Option 2:
TTE as close to 2780lbs to low 2800lbs as possible. Basically would be the least amount of weight I could get without going lexan or carbon fiber shit.
+22 tires (225/45/15 or 225/50/15)
+1 (225 vs 215 base tire)
+1 C4 (intake) - not sure if I want to take points for this or not. Factory box may lose 1 or 2 hp? (I'm talking to my tuner about this)
+5 C22 (header/cat/exhaust)
+3 E3 (Koni)
+2 E5 (ground controls)
-2 E7 (back to stock rear bar)
-2 F1 (back to stock brakes)
Leaves me at +35 points
Move back down to stock brakes (save on weight and fit 15" tires). Fit 15x9 wheels (save weight and help with my low power/gearing issue). Talked to Huffman (TTE Integra dude) and he said just get down as low weight as possible and ask for a dyno reclass so I can get more power and use the extra 4 points and whatever other points they allow with the dyno reclass to:
1. add a cam (can I build engine with stronger parts keeping all sizes the same except changing the cam so the engine can rev to 8500 or so without popping and not take any extra points for adding stronger engine internals?) - this is my only option to add a cam that will make power to be worth it; still stupidly expensive
2. supercharge the car using a the rotrex kit from a 2.0 miata with a little custom fab work from a shop (talking to tuner about this as he is very familiar with this area).
3. give me your input on best optimization on extra points + a dyno reclass possible points.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-17-2015
Super charger is going to put you in TTD probably. Depending on the tune. I can't believe you don't have to take points for your ecu setup if it can take boost
You need to look into the tire size, rollout, and gearing since you don't have FD options
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-17-2015
Kaan Wrote:Super charger is going to put you in TTD probably. Depending on the tune. I can't believe you don't have to take points for your ecu setup if it can take boost
Dyno reclass should help according to Huffman. Who knows if he is right that's why I'm giving different options there.
My ECU setup is stock ECU. I don't know if I take points for that? I don't read it as taking points but idk about all this points shit I'm a newb.
Kaan Wrote:You need to look into the tire size, rollout, and gearing since you don't have FD options
Tire size shit below (don't know if this is exactly right but just a start):
Stock vs 225/50/15 (BFG R1S size) - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=205-55r16-225-50r15">https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?ti ... -225-50r15</a><!-- m -->
Stock vs 225/45/15 (Hoosier A7 size) - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=205-55r16-225-45r15">https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?ti ... -225-45r15</a><!-- m -->
245/40/17 vs 225/50/15 (BFG R1S size) - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=245-40r17-225-50r15">https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?ti ... -225-50r15</a><!-- m -->
245/40/17 vs 225/45/15 (Hoosier A7 size) - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=245-40r17-225-45r15">https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?ti ... -225-45r15</a><!-- m -->
Edit: Also if anyone can find a reputable 15x9 in a +35 to +45 range that would be a great help. I've been looking but a lot of them are low +20 offsets lol
Double edit: Looks like there are some wheels from flying miata that will work. Anyone heard of 949Racing 6UL wheel? Any good? <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.flyinmiata.com/15x9-6ul-wheel.html">https://www.flyinmiata.com/15x9-6ul-wheel.html</a><!-- m -->
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - JPolen01 - 11-17-2015
Tons of people run those on miatas. I want to say Goodspeed had a set but I may be wrong.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - ScottyB - 11-17-2015
rherold9 Wrote:so the engine can rev to 8500 or so without popping
whatever option this is, unless 8500 is a small bump over stock i'd stay the hell away if you just want to just enjoy driving and be reliable. your stock redline is like 7500 right?
some things to consider when you start pushing revs, assuming you have the appropriate intake and exhaust bottlenecks removed to even make power there:
- can your oil pump keep up and not overheat/foam the oil
- can your water pump keep up and not cavitate
- can your PS pump keep up and not boil over
- how far into a dangerous duty cycle might you push your injectors
- do you trust your valve springs/retainers/rod clearances/rod strengths
- heat heat heat
its a risky way to make power IMO unless the engine's thoroughly built for it and you've got some bucks to blow. even raising your redline 1000rpm doesn't sound like much, but the g-loads inside the engine are exponential. big time strain on the rods and pistons = swiss cheesy block.
maybe look into a beefy cam that works closer to the stock RPM limit? how does your engine react to E85? can you take advantage of any sort of larger throttle body, port work, lightweight pulleys etc? that stuff might be relatively cheap for the power returns.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-18-2015
so the 15 inch 949s have been known to break on track Hondas. the 17s didnt come out until this year and i havent heard of any issues with them yet, but i dont know many honda guys that are running them anymore. maybe its different for your mazda, especially since they list the mazda 3 with specific hub rings.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Goodspeed - 11-18-2015
I did have a set of 15x9 6ULs, great wheels. The 4th gen 6UL was just recently released.
A bunch of 15x9's in that offset range can be found here:
http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Parts/Miata/Wheels-Tires/Wheels.html
Flyin' Miata also carries the Jongbloed (sp?) 15x9 wheel as well.
Also, I don't know what the regs are for you on tire size & treadwear, but one thing that is bringing the excitement to the Miata crowd is that Maxxis announced at SEMA that a 245/40/15 200tw tire is coming ~March 2016. Will be interesting to see how it performs vs. a 225 on the 9 inch rim.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-18-2015
Goodspeed, none of those wheels are ball'n enough for him!
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
ScottyB Wrote:your stock redline is like 7500 right?
Stock redline soft cut was 6500 and hard cut used to be 6800. I have it soft cut 6800 and hard cut 7200 from the tune. I actually start to lose power after 6800 according to VDyno I'm assuming from lack of head flow so I barely use it unless I have to hold 3rd gear through like T9 at Summit around 7000.
ScottyB Wrote:maybe look into a beefy cam that works closer to the stock RPM limit? how does your engine react to E85? can you take advantage of any sort of larger throttle body, port work, lightweight pulleys etc? that stuff might be relatively cheap for the power returns.
Don't have that type of cam. That's the first thing I asked him. He said he will research it. Got back to me in 2 days and let me know that it would not work very well and not make much more power than stock a few hp is about all if it did anything. He said the best way to do it is build up the engine for a high redline ~8500rom cam which is ~15-20hp gain.
Yes these are all things that my tuner would help me with. We didn't go into details about everything but I'm sure those are definitely good things to ask if I do go with a cam option even if it is a crazy pain. I just don't have much choice for power options besides the rotrex supercharger kit.
He has tested E85 and no the engine doesn't. Basically I'm at peak flow for this little car to make any more power would be difficult. Pulley's don't do shit and actually are shown to actually possibly damage the engine.
Goodspeed Wrote:I did have a set of 15x9 6ULs, great wheels. The 4th gen 6UL was just recently released.
A bunch of 15x9's in that offset range can be found here:
http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Parts/Miata/Wheels-Tires/Wheels.html
There we go, that's a nice link. Hopefully can find some more like that.
To anyone: How are advanti quality?
Goodspeed Wrote:Also, I don't know what the regs are for you on tire size & treadwear, but one thing that is bringing the excitement to the Miata crowd is that Maxxis announced at SEMA that a 245/40/15 200tw tire is coming ~March 2016. Will be interesting to see how it performs vs. a 225 on the 9 inch rim.
225 "slick" (hoohoo, bfg, etc...) is as wide as a 245, 200 treadwear street tire.
Kaan Wrote:so the 15 inch 949s have been known to break on track Hondas. the 17s didnt come out until this year and i havent heard of any issues with them yet, but i dont know many honda guys that are running them anymore. maybe its different for your mazda, especially since they list the mazda 3 with specific hub rings.
Yeah I'm not looking for wheels that will break on me. How are some of those Konig and Advanti wheels for the track?
Kaan Wrote:Goodspeed, none of those wheels are ball'n enough for him!
Yeah I like my name brand wheels. Rather not have to deal with replacing wheels constantly and of course bling bling status. But for real though I'd rather know I have a highly tested and R&D wheel than not is the main reason.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-18-2015
i've seen guys abuse the crap out the Konigs, but they replace them often... wheels are wear items. i havent heard of anything terrible happening to the Advanti wheels. They seem like a reasonably priced option.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Goodspeed - 11-18-2015
I can tell you out of all the 15x9 options the 6ULs have the best rep in the Miata community. 949 just has the market cornered with the 6UL and they see tons of abuse in HPDE, TT/PT, SM, etc. I mean, any wheel can break if subjected to enough abuse - I know I've seen pics from people who smash into stuff and go "look, ma wheel broke!".
*HOWEVER the 6ULs did have problems with the gen 2 wheels. I had gen 2's. Never noticed any issues but I mostly auto-x'ed on them with 1 track weekend and 2 hyperdrives mixed in. A recommendation went out stating that gen 2's should be removed from track use. See more here:
http://winhpde.com/tech/miata/949racing-6ul-cracked-sheared-spokes/
I can't seem to find it now but Emilio @ 949 recently quoted the known failure rate out of gen 3's & 4's (I think they switched to a different factory for the later gens) and it was something like .0006%. His website does have a disclaimer stating that aluminum track wheels have a finite service life with details on how/when you should check your wheels. I think they're fairly honest on this point whereas other mfr's may not make light of that reality.
Edit: some info on the changes made from gen 1 through 4:
http://949racing.com/wheeltech.aspx
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
Kaan Wrote:i've seen guys abuse the crap out the Konigs, but they replace them often... wheels are wear items. i havent heard of anything terrible happening to the Advanti wheels. They seem like a reasonably priced option.
Yeah if I'm going 15x9 I expect around 12lbs of weight at the most.
If I do this I can lose in wheels/tires alone 28 pounds per corner. I don't know the weight difference between my brakes and speed3/mazda5 brakes but let's assume just 5 pounds each corner is 20 pounds so 48 pounds total off the corners is insane....
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
Goodspeed Wrote:http://winhpde.com/tech/miata/949racing-6ul-cracked-sheared-spokes/
I can't seem to find it now but Emilio @ 949 recently quoted the known failure rate out of gen 3's & 4's (I think they switched to a different factory for the later gens) and it was something like .0006%. His website does have a disclaimer stating that aluminum track wheels have a finite service life with details on how/when you should check your wheels. I think they're fairly honest on this point whereas other mfr's may not make light of that reality.
Edit: some info on the changes made from gen 1 through 4:
http://949racing.com/wheeltech.aspx
Great info :thumbup:
So I do have a few different choices. Konig, Advanti, and 949Racing. Hmmm....
15 inch size looks nice on the wallet for wheels and tires
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Goodspeed - 11-18-2015
rherold9 Wrote:15 inch size looks nice on the wallet for wheels and tires
F'realz. Every time I reconcile my car dreams with my wallet I just want to buy another Miata with their 15" wheels and $20 rotors.
And reading my posts I know I sound like I'm shilling hard for the 6ULs but I just loved my nickel-finished goodness so. Another option to keep an eye on are the FFD Motorsport wheels. They make reps of the lovely ATS DTC's and the rumor mill has stated 15x9's may be coming (they make 8's currently).
![[Image: IMG_2054-Edit.jpg]](http://kazespecengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/IMG_2054-Edit.jpg)
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - Kaan - 11-18-2015
i dont think they come in his bolt patern. i was looking this morning.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
Finally the Autopower roll cage/bar options are available for the 2nd gen mazda3/speed3 since they are the same wheelbase. I was able to call Autopower in California and convince them to set up a prototyping appointment for our cars. I've been trying to get someone to take the appointment since last Spring and a about a month ago I got someone. The person drove from Northwest of LA to San Diego to do the prototyping for half off any cage/bar option Autopower promised for prototyping. I was super excited since I can't go all the way out to Cali.
Pics of the race roll bar that will be going into my car:
![[Image: 26052849da9291dde129ddf154a72da6.jpg]](http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/18/26052849da9291dde129ddf154a72da6.jpg)
![[Image: ec0e9ab576b5364f08f0fa88fbb61e6f.jpg]](http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/18/ec0e9ab576b5364f08f0fa88fbb61e6f.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - rherold9 - 11-18-2015
Kaan Wrote:i dont think they come in his bolt patern. i was looking this morning.
Yeah I'm 5x114.3 bolt pattern so it might actually knock out a lot of my options...
Edit: yeah I just realized basically all my options are out. They are all 4x100 bahahaha. Fml.
Re: Project 2.Slow Mazda3 - D_Eclipse9916 - 11-18-2015
rherold9 Wrote:ScottyB Wrote:your stock redline is like 7500 right?
Stock redline soft cut was 6500 and hard cut used to be 6800. I have it soft cut 6800 and hard cut 7200 from the tune. I actually start to lose power after 6800 according to VDyno I'm assuming from lack of head flow so I barely use it unless I have to hold 3rd gear through like T9 at Summit around 7000.
.
Tuner says notate power fall off after 6800 because of head flow....says 8000rpm will give you a couple ponies...huh? Those are contradictory statements.
Also, dont go the way of high revs. Your motor was not made for it, the balancer on your crank is not made to absorb those harmonics (aside from the 50 other things somebody mentioned).
Upping your Redline is only useful for
A) running out of gear, you just need a bit more to eliminate a shift (saves time)
B) You actually make power up there (not the case for this motor)
More revs is reallllly hard on a piston motor. Don't go down that path, a lot of racers actually reduce their revs to encourage reliability (I shift at 7500rpm in my S54 that revs to 8 stock). Find some other way to make power.
And do you really "need" hp? Doing a dyno reclass actually doesn't help a lot of the times. Before you go down this path, contact Greg Greenbaum and ask at your weight how much "max" hp you can make to stay at a certain point level. Back in 2010 when I requested mine, it was actually lower than what I could get with points so I didn't go that path. It is dependent on the car and Greenbaums mood that day.