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+--- Thread: Bailout the Big 3 or No? (/showthread.php?tid=7805)
- Jeff - 12-13-2008
Dave Wrote:I'm pretty sure that I read that the reason WHY the Senate discussions broke down is b/c the UAW wasn't cooperating enough. To me, that says that they are perfectly fine with the companies collapsing and losing all the jobs, rather than making concessions to keep the paychecks coming for most people.
Crazy bunch of mothers aren't they? I thought about it awhile and I bet they figure if the companies do chapter 11 and restructure they will still need to come to the unions for workers so they could work a sweeter deal there then dealing with the gov. :roll:
- Feersty - 12-13-2008
So now that it didn't go through, what now?
- Dave - 12-13-2008
Feersty Wrote:So now that it didn't go through, what now?The Treasury/White House said on Friday morning that they "may" access the money for the financial industry bailout to keep the auto companies alive.
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"On Thursday, the GOP lawmakers demanded the United Auto Workers union agree to accept a lower pay and benefits package that would be in line with compensation earned by workers at U.S. factories producing cars for Japanese companies such as Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Those companies have plants in the states represented by some of the most ardent critics of bailing out Detroit. The effort ultimately collapsed when the UAW balked at the terms demanded."
In other words, money that was set aside to "be reserved for stabilizing markets" will be used to prop up the auto companies. I'm not going to go out and say the resulting employment of their failure wouldn't hurt our economy, but if a company sucks at what it does, it should be allowed to die.
- Ginger - 12-13-2008
Ginger Wrote:*UAW: I'm glad to see some kind of progress (can I please just say "finally"?), but I've got to hold my breath for the day when they literally not a problem, not just on paper.
- CaptainHenreh - 12-16-2008
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- Evan - 12-30-2008
fuck these dirty lying unions in the asshole
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Step 1: Agree to wage concessions in line with competition to get $17+ billion for a bailout.
Step 2: Cash comes in
Step 3: Say "just kidding we arent cutting wages to competitive levels because we know the next administration wont hold us to that since we gave them so much campaign money"
Step 4: Profit
Step 5: Repeat the next time the auto makers are "too big to fail"
Quote:This will go down as one of the most cynical acts of political manipulation ever. The UAW agreed to one thing with President Bush, knowing full well President-elect Barack Obama and congressional Democrats were big recipients of union largesse and would let them slide.
- Sijray21 - 12-30-2008
wow....that's horrible
- BLINGMW - 12-30-2008
I really hope no-one is surprised by this. :vomit:
- HAULN-SS - 12-30-2008
heh..that should almost go in the friday funnies thread
- Jeff - 12-30-2008
1. Line up UAW members and shoot them
2. Hire people who will work for what the 'import' companies pay in this country
3. Lower the prices of the product while still setting yourself up for step 4.
4. Make profit
5. Repeat.
- Evan - 12-30-2008
I must say, I have always "rooted" for american cars. Whenever Im car shopping I have always shopped the american cars first even when I didnt end up buying one. I think that in the past 5 years the american carmakers have begun making as good as and often better vehicles than imports.
but
This whole mess has severely changed my attitude. As long as the UAW has any power or control in any american automobile manufacturer, I will not buy one.
- Jeff - 12-30-2008
Why Evan? They will just steal more of your tax money to pay the fools. Might as well buy a car and get SOMETHING out of the deal. :wink: I mean, I don't want to see any of the American car companies go out (for obvious reasons) but I certainly don't see any use for the UAW. There is no reason for these people to make the money the do. Ever notice that most of the import factories in this country are in the south? The south is traditionally anti-union, all they had to say, "Hi, were Honda. We want to build a factory in your shit-hole town and create 1,000 jobs. Now, NO UNIONS! We pay this much money. Deal?"
- BLINGMW - 01-26-2009
oh hey, that was nice, Chrysler sent us a big thank you! :roll: :lol:
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- Jeff - 01-26-2009
Can't win for losing I suppose. Employee pricing starts today...and the inventory keeps growing. I think this has some historical significance in that they did a similar thing in the 80's after they re-paid the loan that saved them in the late 70's. The important thing being they did it after they were profitable again and the loan was paid. I can see where this would bother many people but I think it was well meant. If the money gets paid back (a big IF) the government will MAKE MONEY. People need to stop bitching and let this thing play out. It won't get better for anyone in any industry until people stop bitching and we gain some confidence.
- Ginger - 01-26-2009
The problem with the government making money IF it's paid back is that it's a HUGE gamble. There is a very good reason that private capital wouldn't shore them up. By handing them a loan that they really couldn't qualify for we've set a national precedent for the government as a lender of last resort for private enterprise. In turn, we're sending the message that corporate and financial mismanagement is totally acceptable. It's another example of the, rather popular, notion that one can spend the way out of a recession.
I'm not sure about anybody else's books, but mine don't say that "Very Little Minus A Lot = More Than You Started With".
- Jeff - 01-26-2009
I understand completely and I am with you 100%. But the decision has been made and the money has been lent, so we need to make the best of what we have now is what I am saying. More importantly the companies that have our money need to make the best of what they have, and this is an example of that not being the case. People going online and wining and crying about it does not fix anything. The media does nothing but make it sound like the end of the world is upon us. At the very least there could be some optimism...
- Ginger - 01-26-2009
You're right, this was definitely not a case of wise use. However, I disagree about the whining. The more we speak out against this type of thing the more our politicians will know that if they keep it up we won't be putting them back in to office. It's not lobbying on doorsteps, but it's a something.
I don't want to get too take this thread too far out of purpose... but I am pretty worried about the havoc the "recovery" plans and actions, such as these, will cause. They aren't the right moves to be making, history has taught us that, and they very well could turn this recession in to something far more serious.
- Steve85 - 01-26-2009
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/26/obama.emissions/index.html
If they are begging for money to survive and you agree they need it, why would you do this?
:?:
- Dave - 01-26-2009
for real, count on CA to come up with more stupid shit. Wouldn't it be better right now to offer an incentive program for these companies than restrict them more?
- Ginger - 01-26-2009
Steve85 Wrote:why would you do this?
:?:
Because he's got his head so far up his ass that he can't tell which way to head for day break.