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+--- Thread: Spec E46 Built (/showthread.php?tid=10854)
Re: Spec E46 Built - Kaan - 12-09-2014
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:And no longer sleeping on an air mattress is going to be magical. It's quite the sight in my trailer with Jess/Me/2 dogs all on a queen air bed.
my eyes! my eyes! :bootyshake:
Re: Spec E46 Built - rherold9 - 12-09-2014
Why do the Ohlins look so long on FB?
Re: Spec E46 Built - D_Eclipse9916 - 12-09-2014
rherold9 Wrote:Why do the Ohlins look so long on FB?
? Like shock length? #drooptravel
Re: Spec E46 Built - Evan - 12-09-2014
36' !
plenty of room for 2 cars......... so whats next
Re: Spec E46 Built - rherold9 - 12-10-2014
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:rherold9 Wrote:Why do the Ohlins look so long on FB?
? Like shock length? #drooptravel
Ah okay. A lot of droop needed on those? I thought the way they are valved hitting bumps the wheels are quickly back on the ground.
Spec E46 Built - D_Eclipse9916 - 12-10-2014
rherold9 Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:rherold9 Wrote:Why do the Ohlins look so long on FB?
? Like shock length? #drooptravel
Ah okay. A lot of droop needed on those? I thought the way they are valved hitting bumps the wheels are quickly back on the ground.
Anytime you can increase shock travel and droop is better (to a realistic limit). Running out of shock travel happens a lot with economy type cars, especially when they get lowered. It is a design consideration by the oem based on constraints that aren't just handling.
One of the many reasons cars that are slammed ride and handle like shit (runs out of shock travel or has to run a high enough spring rate to not run out of travel that the shocks don't do the work they are supposed to).
BMWs and all cars have those constraints as well, some do it better for aftermarket shocks then others. Japanese coilovers typically suck (for our use) with little travel and high spring rates because their tracks are typically much smoother and tighter. Way different than real streets and east coast US tracks where you need more travel, softer spring rates to produce more grip.
Re: Spec E46 Built - rherold9 - 12-10-2014
Well yes I know/understand that. I was just wondering because they just looked abnormally longer than I'm used to.
You lifting the E46? :wink:
Re: Spec E46 Built - D_Eclipse9916 - 12-10-2014
Just FYI, just looking at a picture of a shock doesn't indicate travel. I realized I didn't address that. If your shock is riding 3/4 way down at static ride height then it only has bump travel of 1/4 shock. Change the suspension design (or if you are limited like 99% of classes/cars, go up in ride height) can give you more travel. Again, the Japanese don't need travel like we do on our east coast tracks and real streets on the road, so they can run less travel with higher spring rates without consequences of overloading the tire or running out of travel.
Re: Spec E46 Built - PDenbigh - 12-11-2014
Sorry to go OT, but that's interesting. Why do prepped cars have so little droop when jacked up then? Most that I see have about as much space between the tire and wheel well when jacked up as a street car does when on the ground. I've head of circle track guys literally attaching chains between the chassis and control arms to limit droop. What am I missing here? Further reading suggestions?
Re: Spec E46 Built - BLINGMW - 12-11-2014
PDenbigh Wrote:Sorry to go OT, but that's interesting. Why do prepped cars have so little droop when jacked up then? Most that I see have about as much space between the tire and wheel well when jacked up as a street car does when on the ground. I've head of circle track guys literally attaching chains between the chassis and control arms to limit droop. What am I missing here? Further reading suggestions?
If the other tire's still on the ground, then it's probably the swaybar holding up the free wheel. FWIW, I've seen straps/chains on track cars as well, just to keep the shock from reaching its limits and/or to keep springs that are too short from falling out. Not ideal obviously.
Re: Spec E46 Built - SlimKlim - 12-11-2014
I was wondering something similar, there was a fully prepped 997 Turbo that hung around my old shop with every dial turned up to 11, made like 800hp, absolutely massive tires and super blingy suspension components and remote reservoir shocks. When it was on the ground the edge of the tire was just tucking inside the fender, on the lift there was maaaybe 2 inches of droop.
It wasn't owned by a spoiled stance kid or anything either, dude is in his 50s and uses that car as his track beater. Doesn't necessarily mean he had the best track setup though.
Re: Spec E46 Built - JPolen01 - 12-11-2014
Did someone say droop?
![[Image: 1545784_10152230858248707_1603535854_n.j...feb1a4b27e]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1545784_10152230858248707_1603535854_n.jpg?oh=bf253ecec3bf2739288c8c1cbe484d84&oe=551160BB&__gda__=1430637665_b083b1df23c9b54a7ac6a3feb1a4b27e)
Re: Spec E46 Built - Senor_Taylor - 12-11-2014
All of this is very foreign to me.
Re: Spec E46 Built - PDenbigh - 12-11-2014
JPolen01 Wrote:Did someone say droop?
Exactly! My understanding from DJ's post is that's not nearly enough, yet it's how all prepped racecars seem to be setup. I am 'le confused.
Re: Spec E46 Built - PDenbigh - 12-11-2014
PDenbigh Wrote:Exactly! My understanding from DJ's post is that's not nearly enough, yet it's how all prepped racecars seem to be setup. I am 'le confused.
PS - admins, feel free to split this into another technical discussion.
Re: Spec E46 Built - BLINGMW - 12-11-2014
JPolen01 Wrote:Did someone say droop?:lol: yeah that don't look right...
Re: Spec E46 Built - D_Eclipse9916 - 12-11-2014
PDenbigh Wrote:JPolen01 Wrote:Did someone say droop?
Exactly! My understanding from DJ's post is that's not nearly enough, yet it's how all prepped racecars seem to be setup. I am 'le confused.
Again, we are talking setups for street and normal production cars. You can't provide extreme examples. Droop travel is not as important as shock travel.
Competition only cars such as the 911 cup car is built around gumball tires (far beyond your street tires) such that it uses high spring rates without overloading the tire. Combine that with smooth tracks and you end up with a car that doesn't nearly need as much shock travel as your normal production car on street tires with rougher roads.
That 911 cup car would be skittish and really low grip (comparatively to a properly set up one) on the street with street tires.
Stay away from comparing apples to oranges. (Race cars with gumball tires and smooth tracks compared to a Mazda 3 on street tires)
Re: Spec E46 Built - D_Eclipse9916 - 12-11-2014
PDenbigh Wrote:I've head of circle track guys literally attaching chains between the chassis and control arms to limit droop. What am I missing here? Further reading suggestions?
#solidaxle.
Re: Spec E46 Built - PDenbigh - 12-12-2014
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Stay away from comparing apples to oranges. (Race cars with gumball tires and smooth tracks compared to a Mazda 3 on street tires)
I was talking about race cars. Were you not?
Spec E46 Built - D_Eclipse9916 - 12-12-2014
PDenbigh Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Stay away from comparing apples to oranges. (Race cars with gumball tires and smooth tracks compared to a Mazda 3 on street tires)
I was talking about race cars. Were you not?
No, we were discussing shocks on a production car e46 and a Mazda 3 on street tires. Then Jon posted a pic about a 911 cup car asking about no droop, apples to oranges.
Edit: I think some people are applying high end race car theories to their street car. Have to be really careful. I am certainly no ohlins engineer but after spending lots of time reading/talking with suspension and tire engineers, crewing for teams, playing with rates/shocks on my own car; I realized how wrong conventual wisdom can lead you down the wrong path. Also the if a little but more is better why not a lot more for best? Rarely works that way.
A little more spring rate is good on a production car, a lot more is bad. Most Japanese coilovers have cars on street tires with higher spring rates/effective wheel rates than my 10.3 inch r compound shod, aero race car. I drive them and although the car doesn't roll, it just skips/pops/jitters over surfaces and can't effectively grip
Edit again: I have helped a lot if people who went by their "butt meter". Less roll feels better but isn't necessarily faster. I have had multiple people who I drove their car and it was wayyyy too stiff, softened it up and it went faster. They then drove it softer and didnt like the feeling, but were faster.