+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo (/showthread.php?tid=5304)
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - Ken - 01-11-2019
Yup. My wife's cousin had the Sentra, had to drive it once. It was miserable, can confirm all the above.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - Jake - 01-31-2019
I went to the Rolex 24 in Daytona Beach and rented a car from Avis. Then I got home and dropped my truck off for warranty work (Ford apparently cannot make a DI V8 that doesn't sound like it has timing chain slap when cold, or build a pano sunroof that doesn't rattle). In both cases, I ended up with a Fusion SE Hybrid so I am now an expert whether I want to be or not.
The SE is the cheapest Hybrid model and priced at like $23k MSRP. The Avis car was Ruby Red on tan (Ruby Red looks good on anything) and the loaner is Magnetic gray on black (for boring people).
Objectively, for a large-ish base-ish model sedan, these have a lot of features going on. Auto-down windows, keyless go, dual climate, six-ish-speaker audio, Bluetooth, comfy power seats with lumbar, fancy digital gauge cluster. It's a $23k sedan that gets 40 mpg and looks nice enough doing it. The base sound system is better than expected.
Jesus H it is slow.
I've been driving it in both "normal" and "Eco" modes and discovered "Eco" makes it use more electricity and less gasoline, I think. In both cases, throttle response is nonexistent. The electric motor will keep you going but struggles to help you leave a stoplight, so the grumbly four-cylinder comes on and helps out. The past few days have been very cold (duh) and the car does not want to hybrid very much until it warms up, so you get this I4 making a racket hooked up to whatever the fuck CVT sort of transmission a hybrid uses. Halfway through my commute, the car settles into normal hybrid operation but still needs a lot of gasoline assistance to keep it moving.
When the gas motor is off, you notice the lack of sound deadening. It's the same as any Camry/Altima/Sonata I've been in - you hear every thing the suspension is dealing with.
The combined power output of gas + electric is 188 horsepower, and the car weighs 3,600 lbs without anyone in it. It is not fast. If you mat the throttle for a highway on-ramp merge, the Dyson spins up to full power and you will eventually get to your desired speed while listening to a pissed-off coffee grinder up front.
I've put ~90 miles on the loaner Fusion so far and the dash reports that about 39 of those miles have been 100% electric, which is pretty sweet. I'm averaging about 39 mpg, which is less than the rated mileage but not by much. It's rated at 42 mpg combined city/highway and the cold probably affects that somewhat. It is very cool to check out the dash displays and see that you're doing 65 mph on batteries alone, even if it only happens on flat ground. The batteries eat up a TON of trunk space which is disappointing, and shows the car's age.
My biggest takeaways are that I really like horsepower and heated seats, and despise injection-molded steering wheels. A leather-wrapped wheel is the easiest way to make any car feel a touch nicer. And I think these Fusions would be great cars to drive in full V6 Sport trim (325 hp) but fucking fuck I don't like the Hybrid very much. It's better than the loaner Focuses with slipping PowerShifts, though.
It looks like this but with more unwashed salt spray down the sides:
![[Image: 3FA6P0LU7JR150294-2c.jpg]](https://cdn.getauto.com/photos/9/84399/2c/3FA6P0LU7JR150294-2c.jpg)
![[Image: Ford_Fusion_Hybrid_15278949678._2018_For...ybrid_.jpg]](http://currentev.com/uploads/electric-vehicle/image/Ford_Fusion_Hybrid_15278949678._2018_Ford_Fusion_SE_Hybrid_.jpg)
Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - JPolen01 - 01-31-2019
Am I they only person that doesn't understand the point in rolling down the windows from the key?
An old co-worker of mine had a top of the line fusion hybrid and it was pretty nice. The backseat was a little on the small side but the leather was nice and fit and finish was pretty good. I never drove it I can't comment on the lack of horsepower.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - Sijray21 - 01-31-2019
(01-31-2019, 12:15 PM)JPolen01 Wrote: Am I they only person that doesn't understand the point in rolling down the windows from the key?
I find it really nice on hot days. It cools off the car nicely before getting inside of it on hot days; I use the feature all the time in the summer. I would find it even more important if I had a non-cloth seating surface. It doesn't have a lot of utility aside from that though.
Edit: I've also found it SUPER useful when I'm inside and it starts to rain knowing I've left my windows cracked or open. Being able to get within range (not having to rush to get inside and start the car) and able to close the sunroof/windows with the keyfob is really nice.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - Jake - 01-31-2019
(01-31-2019, 12:15 PM)JPolen01 Wrote: An old co-worker of mine had a top of the line fusion hybrid and it was pretty nice. The backseat was a little on the small side but the leather was nice and fit and finish was pretty good. I never drove it I can't comment on the lack of horsepower.
I found it amusing that Avis considered the Fusion "full size" when the Taurus exists. I was supposed to get an Impala which I think is legitimately full-sized. Anyway, it worked for just me so no comment on backseat room.
These cars can be very nice, but the base model definitely doesn't impress if you're used to more equipment. But, looking at the price, if you only have low-20s to spend on a brand-new car that gets very good economy, it strikes me as a lot of car for the money. The Camry and Optima Hybrid are $5k more, the Accord Hybrid is $2k more. At sub-25k for a hybrid sedan, the Sonata Hybrid is the only one to compete with a similar starting price.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - Evan - 02-01-2019
I rented a Fusion Hybrid Titanium last year. It was just schlepping the family around on vacation so nothing interesting, but I really liked it. Well designed all around, did everything pretty well and barely sipped any gas while doing it. Miles ahead of the Hyundai Snota I rented the year before.
Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - ViPER1313 - 02-01-2019
The Fusion Sport has crossed my shopping list a bunch of times. With prices like this, how can you go wrong?
![[Image: a94c5aa7c3b2d756a835e08a65fc0f1b.jpg]](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190201/a94c5aa7c3b2d756a835e08a65fc0f1b.jpg)
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - Jake - 02-01-2019
I turned Eco off last night and like it more now. Eco mode really dulls the throttle response. It's still slow but at least it tries its little heart out and gets ~40 mpg doing it.
The base sound system continues to impress. Adam - the Sport with more options and more ass under the hood (you can, I think, get the 2.0L EcoBoost or V6) would be a very nice car. They take a corner well enough and are comfy.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - .RJ - 03-05-2019
I have my brother in law's F10 M5 all week.... more later... either from jail or a ditch.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - Sijray21 - 03-05-2019
(03-05-2019, 10:20 AM).RJ Wrote: I have my brother in law's F10 M5 all week.... more later... either from jail or a ditch.Is it the 6-spd though? Nothing auto could be fun, right?
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - ScottyB - 03-05-2019
(03-05-2019, 10:20 AM).RJ Wrote: I have my brother in law's F10 M5 all week.... more later... either from jail or a ditch.
you fellas have nothing to worry about...he's a professional
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/bGxfUZGfFzCbC/giphy.gif)
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - .RJ - 03-05-2019
Its a DCT... its grouchy AF for sure when its 25 deg out and everything is cold, not the smoothest thing. I couldnt really find the balance between moving forward from a stop and lighting off the rear tires.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - .RJ - 03-13-2019
(03-05-2019, 10:26 AM)Sijray21 Wrote:(03-05-2019, 10:20 AM).RJ Wrote: I have my brother in law's F10 M5 all week.... more later... either from jail or a ditch.Is it the 6-spd though? Nothing auto could be fun, right?
Alright so I burned through 1/2 tank of gas in this thing which, news flash, is not hard to do.
This thing is fast. Hilarious, ridiculous, going plaid fast... 550hp/500 ft-lbs from a twin turbo "hot v" V8. Its also a huge car, probably bigger than an old school E38 7-series shorty. Interior feels like it came out of a space ship compared to my E90, both with all of the tech stuff and also lots of angles and carbon/metal finishes and its a comfortable place to spend hours on the road. Kind of neat, I'll admit I liked the interior styling although I couldnt figure out how to play something from my phone through the iDrive so I just gave up using it.
Even with the suspension & steering set to "sport plus" it just drove too big and heavy for what I'd expect for an M-car though. It had a really amazing solid & stable feel on the road and under hard braking but start loading it up in a corner or hustling it and it really let its weight show and it felt a little numb and disconnected although the front end always felt planted and I felt like it had too much body roll. All sins forgiven when you hit the loud pedal, though. Really glorious powertrain, its like a freight train with a steering wheel. I think the car is probably more at home cruising down the autobahn at 140mph for hours on end than getting hustled on back roads for sure. The DCT is pretty neat, I can see why people like them. I'd still prefer a 3rd pedal but I'll concede its neat technology, although I'm not sure its worlds better the 8-speed ZF in the F31 I drove. Curiously, BMW went back to a torque converter auto for the F90 M5.
Short take: If you put a torque converter gearbox in it and told me it was an AMG benz, you'd have fooled me. Not that its a bad thing.... but felt like it was missing that last bit of driver engagement I'd expect in an //M car.
![[Image: triple-black-bmw-m5-will-haunt-your-drea...7158_1.jpg]](https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/triple-black-bmw-m5-will-haunt-your-dreams-photo-gallery-57158_1.jpg)
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - Sijray21 - 03-13-2019
(03-13-2019, 03:22 PM).RJ Wrote: I'd still prefer a 3rd pedal but I'll concede its neat technology, although I'm not sure its worlds better the 8-speed ZF in the F31 I drove
Funny you mention this. When i test drove an F30 328i mSport with the zf8-speed auto last fall i got the same feeling. It was quick, effortlessly quick, but i definitely felt disengaged from the whole driving experience. I enjoyed the ride, but the test drive kind of gave me a feeling of "what's the point?" The F30 328i msport was comfortable, quick (not fast), and nice to drive. Somehow the 6-spd older GTI still felt more engaging and exciting to drive, albeit slower. That test drive sort of made me reconsider what i want out of a car. The only cars i drive consistently are conventional stick-shift and i enjoy that. If it doesn't have the third pedal and a stick to shift gears around with i thought about going more cush and less sporty/rigid for a daily... I'm sure the kind of power that this m5 has could be exciting, but how often could you hoon it?
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - G.Irish - 03-15-2019
I think a ZF auto (or reasonable torque converter auto) is fine for a daily driver if you have no sporting intentions and there's no option for a manual. But only if you've got something else that is fun to drive.
I guess the M5 is more of a grand touring missile so a ZF might be the best transmission for that customer.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - WRXtranceformed - 03-18-2019
ZFs also hold power a lot better than any of the DCTs. That's why you see them in a lot of the high hp / torque cars. The ZF in my XFR was fantastic, shifted plenty fast
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - G.Irish - 03-18-2019
Nah, the reason you see ZF's in some of those applications is because they're smoother from low speeds than a DCT. All of the supercars and hypercars have DCT's and are pushing anywhere from 500-ish horsepower to 1500 hp in the Chiron. A DCT also has less drive-train power loss than a torque converter auto.
When you see manufacturers like BMW claim they're switching to a ZF because their DCT can't handle the power, that is them putting PR spin on how they've decided to allocate their resources. BMW can save money by taking the ZF they put in the X5M, X6M, and M5, and slap it into the X3M, X4M, and next M3/M4. Otherwise, they'd need to spend money on one transmission for the SUV M-cars, and another for the M3/M4. They can, but they figured they can save money and maybe not lose that many customers.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - WRXtranceformed - 03-18-2019
(03-18-2019, 12:51 PM)G.Irish Wrote: Nah, the reason you see ZF's in some of those applications is because they're smoother from low speeds than a DCT. All of the supercars and hypercars have DCT's and are pushing anywhere from 500-ish horsepower to 1500 hp in the Chiron. A DCT also has less drive-train power loss than a torque converter auto.
When you see manufacturers like BMW claim they're switching to a ZF because their DCT can't handle the power, that is them putting PR spin on how they've decided to allocate their resources. BMW can save money by taking the ZF they put in the X5M, X6M, and M5, and slap it into the X3M, X4M, and next M3/M4. Otherwise, they'd need to spend money on one transmission for the SUV M-cars, and another for the M3/M4. They can, but they figured they can save money and maybe not lose that many customers.
Really? I did not know that, I always assumed they were being truthful that the DCT setups couldn't handle that much torque
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - G.Irish - 03-18-2019
Their DCT might not be able to handle that kind of power, but only because that is how they built it. I would say this is another example of BMW of deciding to be mediocre instead of building the 'ultimate driving machine' but I guess I can see how this makes good business sense, even if they're making products less desirable to me personally.
RE: Rental Car Ruckus 2: Electric Boogaloo - .RJ - 03-18-2019
The M5 DCT wasnt smooth at all leaving from a stop and a little sluggish while it was cold, like, below freezing cold. After a few miles it was fine.
I could see customers that bought a $100k car complaining about that.