+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: The market is BEGGING.... (/showthread.php?tid=6247)
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - .RJ - 05-09-2013
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:DavidL Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Is it sad that I REALLLLLLLLY want a BRZ to build for STX?
Or build an RX8 and be just as competitive and save $20k??
Have had some serious thoughts about the BRZ, but I just dont think I can do 200 hp
Don't feel like building an expensive to rebuild Renesis motor every 20k miles, and get junk gas mileage while driving it around.
Why would you have to rebuild it every 20k?
And... I lol'd at the gas mileage. A $20k autox car is a totally reasonable idea, but that extra few hundred $$ a year in fuel is totally stupid....
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - G.Irish - 05-09-2013
Evan Wrote:Early last year just about every automaker was talking about a BRZ/FR-S competitor and even a couple concept cars made the rounds. This year, nothing. I was looking forward to the competition but looks like for the foreseeable future the toyobaru is the only game in town.I think what we'll see is that the competition was waiting to see how the market accepted the BRZ/FR-S. Now that they've seen it's a hit, projects might get greenlights, but that means a competitor might be 2 or 3 years out. I don't think any of the other manufacturers have a response to the BRZ that is deep in development right now.
The only one that could potentially be in the game IMO is Mazda with a new RX-7, since that's something they were looking at doing anyway. But who knows if that is a project that was actually approved and funded. Honda has some sort of small sports car under development but I suspect it's gonna be a Beat replacement, meaning it's gonna be a tiny car with very low horsepower and may not even come to the US.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - BLINGMW - 05-09-2013
CaptainHenreh Wrote:S2000 vs GT86 vs RX-8I wish I had an S2000
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - ScottyB - 05-09-2013
i still love the FRiSBee. from a daily driver standpoint, it looks fantastic. people are getting some real power out of a decent tune and a fully EL header....there are definitely bottlenecks.
that said....the S2K is always going to be lusted after. Honda got so much right with that car. WTF happened after that, i have no idea.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - G.Irish - 05-09-2013
ScottyB Wrote:that said....the S2K is always going to be lusted after. Honda got so much right with that car. WTF happened after that, i have no idea.Economic crisis. Honda had a V8 RWD platform in development for Acura, some sort of S2000 successor, and the front-engined V10 GT sports car ready to unveil at Detroit in January of 09, but the bottom fell out of the economy and they cancelled all of those projects.
I'm actually happy they cancelled that big heavy GT but losing the RWD platform and a new S2000 were huge blows.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - D_Eclipse9916 - 05-09-2013
.RJ Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Don't feel like building an expensive to rebuild Renesis motor every 20k miles, and get junk gas mileage while driving it around.
Why would you have to rebuild it every 20k?
And... I lol'd at the gas mileage. A $20k autox car is a totally reasonable idea, but that extra few hundred $$ a year in fuel is totally stupid....
Because they simply suck. Most guys at 100k are on their 2nd and 3rd engines. 8-10k for a decent RX8, say $3,000 to rebuild the motor everytime, worse gas mileage and VERY low resale value. Meanwhile, the Toyobaru will be more reliable, lighter, better on gas, sound WAYYY better, and I bet resale value will stay pretty up there for a while meaning less depreciation cost.
Rotaries are incredibly reliable on track, incredibly UNRELIABLE on the street. Worse gas mileage than my truck and depreciation like a jaguar. No thanks.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - .RJ - 05-09-2013
Rebuilds are $1500. And if you drive like, well, one of us would, its a non issue. I mean, if you dont like the spinny doritos, thats fine, they're not for everyone. I'd drive one, better suspension and more tire clearance than a BRZ/FRS and I like the engines.
I'm really curious to see what kind of HP the BRZ/FRS makes with a good header, exhaust and tune....
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - CaptainHenreh - 05-09-2013
If the RX8 made 300 horsepower OR got 25MPG I'd be driving one right now.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - .RJ - 05-09-2013
At 10,000 miles a year, 20mpg to 25mpg is a $350 difference in fuel cost. I dont get the fuss.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - xvxax - 05-09-2013
.RJ Wrote:I'm really curious to see what kind of HP the BRZ/FRS makes with a good header, exhaust and tune....
175-180ishwheelhp/135-140 torque-ish on 93 octane with intake, unequal header, full exhaust including high flow cat. That's tuned on a dyno.
.RJ Wrote:At 10,000 miles a year, 20mpg to 25mpg is a $350 difference in fuel cost. I dont get the fuss.
I don't get the fuss either. If I had to do it again, RX8s are a ton of fun to drive and cheap if you're looking for a play car. This company will rebuild for $1450 and they have a good reputation.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/rx8gen/engine_prices.html">http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/rx8ge ... rices.html</a><!-- m -->
Let's be honest, if you are build an ST* car, you aren't going to drive it to work every day in Northern Virginia.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - WRXtranceformed - 05-09-2013
Most of the people I know that owned rotary RX8s were closer to the 16-18mpg mixed driving range. They also had their cars in the shop quite a bit for annoying stuff. I don't think you are ever going to win an argument that those engines don't suck balls unless you use the irrelevant power to displacement argument.
I just can't see how you can own an RX7 / RX8 without an LS swap in it. That makes a lot more sense than replacing the engine 3+ times during the life of ownership.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - D_Eclipse9916 - 05-09-2013
xvxax Wrote:Let's be honest, if you are build an ST* car, you aren't going to drive it to work every day in Northern Virginia.
I will be driving a V8-swapped M3 daily or a 2500HD diesel, pretty sure I dont mind a "little" inconveniences. :wink: But my drive to work is all Reston backroads
An rx8 is a lot of effort for 16-18mpg, ~180rwhp, terrible sound, engine rebuilds, and a car that will be worth max ~4k in a couple years.
I guess it just doesn't make sense to me since it doesn't "motivate" me. The motor is the flawed part of that equation.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - Evan - 05-09-2013
I really liked the RX-8 my ex-gf had. But id still probably rather have an FR-S, although I say that having never driven one.
S2000 is playing a different game though, I dont compare coupes to convertibles. A whole different level of plusses and minuses to really compare them. And after tracking/racing miatas for so long my next fun car will be a touch bigger and with a fixed roof.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - navin - 05-09-2013
Has there been any inklings of a BRZ STi and whatever the equivalent FRS would be? I dunno why either, but I really like the BRZ/FR-S as well.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - WRXtranceformed - 05-09-2013
navin Wrote:Has there been any inklings of a BRZ STi and whatever the equivalent FRS would be? I dunno why either, but I really like the BRZ/FR-S as well.I'm right there with you. An STi / TRD version with more power and some extra styling cues to set it apart from the other boy racers would wean me back to boosted 4 bangers from my desires for a big American V8 in the next funcar
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - Evan - 05-09-2013
G.Irish Wrote:The only one that could potentially be in the game IMO is Mazda with a new RX-7, since that's something they were looking at doing anyway.And if they release yet another car with a great chassis but bullshit oil drinking powerdrill motor I will pretend it doesnt even fucking exist.
but, is moot anyway methinks,
Mazda has been in the red for a while, and theyve even delayed the new miata a couple of years to focus on shit that actually makes money, so Id be shocked if they introduced a whole new low volume car on a low volume platform.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - ScottyB - 07-09-2013
i keep the FRS/BRZ twins on a "next car" short list and try to keep up with how that ownership community is doing with the cars...problems, aftermarket, etc.
looks like 20 to 30k mile+ cars are having serious failures with the DI system. somehow something is compromising the injector (seal of some kind) and then injector itself deteriorates in short order = leaning out and bad things. parts are apparently hard/impossible to get due to high failure rate, and the DI system isn't cheap.
doesn't look like a 100% fail rate, but amongst cars that see high rpm where the DI system comes online, something isn't right. of course i also acknowledge you're going to hear bitching about obscure problems from the online enthusiasts at a higher rate than normal, so that's taken into account.
Jason, you see many of these at the dealership?'ring rental FRS's getting dumped due to DI issues
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1049396&postcount=158">http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showpost ... tcount=158</a><!-- m -->
running thread keeping tracking people starting to have/had issues
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36008">http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36008</a><!-- m -->
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - CaptainHenreh - 07-09-2013
Soooo the one thing toyota did they fucked up? Goddammit toyota...
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - Evan - 07-09-2013
Thanks for the headsup scotty, that severely affects my plans of picking up a lightly used one for hooning and occasional track use.
I was really hoping Subaru would slap on its DI system, so maybe next model year that will happen.
Toyotas system is bullshit to begin with, whats the point of DI if you combine it with regular-ass manifold injection?
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - ScottyB - 07-09-2013
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Soooo the one thing toyota did they fucked up? Goddammit toyota...go hug your IS, its the last thing that company built for normal people worth mentioning.
yeah i never got the point of this mutant failure-pile DI system. pick one fuel delivery setup or the other. maybe it was some kind of stupid consolation between the manufacturers to include toyota's DI so that toyota could tag along and say they helped develop the car (it was primarily subaru's car as i understand).
it seems that once you get over 5k RPM, the DI system picks up and then becomes predominant, and that's why tracked cars are having the worst issues, what with them sitting in DI range for minutes at a time just dumping fuel. shitty thing is that using the car for motorsports and hard driving is what i would be most interested in doing with it as well.
sucks extra hard because tuners are finding some really nice power in the engine breathing department, and power has been the caveat all along. it'll give an S2K a run for the money with the right I/E/tune, from what i'm seeing. they like boost too.
cliffs:
![[Image: CZJjp_zps9fea411c.gif]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/scottyb226/CZJjp_zps9fea411c.gif)
we can't have nice things.