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+--- Thread: The market is BEGGING.... (/showthread.php?tid=6247)
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - Jeff - 11-27-2012
Ohhh, whew. Glad he got rid of that.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - ScottyB - 11-27-2012
Seantn1k Wrote:I've heard the suspension is upgraded on the Subaru version, has anyone had a chance to compare the two?
i think its more of a tweaking than an upgrade. the rear is stiffer and it basically wants to hang the ass out more than the BRZ. both are well balanced.
i will try to personally compare at the first opportunity 8)
The market is BEGGING.... - JPolen01 - 11-27-2012
I have not read anything about suspensions being different. Only differences I've seen are minor body tweaks and interiors.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - CaptainHenreh - 11-27-2012
Car: Front OE Spring Rate:
Subaru BRZ 27 N/mm (153 lbs/in)
Scion FR-S 23 N/mm (131 lbs/in)
Rear OE Spring Rate:
Subaru BRZ 34 N/mm (195 lbs/in)
Scion FR-S 37 N/mm (211 lbs/in)
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - Jeff - 11-27-2012
Interesting that the Subaru has the stiffer front but the softer rear. Wonder why they did that? Different weight distribution in the bodywork?
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - CaptainHenreh - 11-27-2012
Jeff Wrote:Interesting that the Subaru has the stiffer front but the softer rear. Wonder why they did that? Different weight distribution in the bodywork?
To make it understeer.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - Evan - 11-27-2012
nice car! he got the right color too!
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - G.Irish - 11-28-2012
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Jeff Wrote:Interesting that the Subaru has the stiffer front but the softer rear. Wonder why they did that? Different weight distribution in the bodywork?
To make it understeer.
Nah they didn't tune the BRZ to be Mr. Plow, they just tuned it to have more balanced handling than the FR-S. FR-S is tuned to oversteer more readily so those who want to drift into telephone poles will have their wish.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - BLINGMW - 11-28-2012
I can almost guarantee that no auto manufacturer would set up their car to oversteer. We're still talking about Toyota here. Subaru probably just wanted to get it more in line with their other heavy, AWD plow offerings. :wink:
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - CaptainHenreh - 11-28-2012
CaptainHenreh Wrote:To make it (the BRZ) understeer MORE than the FR-S.
Satisfied?
If you take two identical cars, give one stiff springs in the front and softer springs in the rear it's going to understeer more than the other one, all other things being equal (which isn't guaranteed...I don't have the rollbar thicknesses at hand)
FWIW, this, the interior, and money are likely all Toyota really contributed to the BRZ/86.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - .RJ - 11-28-2012
Unless it has struts up front and not enough swaybar.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - G.Irish - 11-28-2012
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Yes, this is what I was getting at, which also answers Chan's post. I guess when it comes down to it both cars would be tuned to be neutral with a hint of understeer, but the Subaru is tuned more to deliver faster lap time, the FR-S to be maybe a bit more entertaining at the limit.CaptainHenreh Wrote:To make it (the BRZ) understeer MORE than the FR-S.
Satisfied?
If you take two identical cars, give one stiff springs in the front and softer springs in the rear it's going to understeer more than the other one, all other things being equal (which isn't guaranteed...I don't have the rollbar thicknesses at hand)
FWIW, this, the interior, and money are likely all Toyota really contributed to the BRZ/86.
I'm hoping I could get something like this in the not too distant future but in all honesty I'll probably have to get a sport sedan of some sort =/
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - Evan - 11-28-2012
CaptainHenreh Wrote:CaptainHenreh Wrote:To make it (the BRZ) understeer MORE than the FR-S.
Satisfied?
If you take two identical cars, give one stiff springs in the front and softer springs in the rear it's going to understeer more than the other one, all other things being equal (which isn't guaranteed...I don't have the rollbar thicknesses at hand)
FWIW, this, the interior, and money are likely all Toyota really contributed to the BRZ/86.
in the world of trying to get fwd commuter shitpiles to corner, the rule of thumb- stiffer in the rear = more oversteer generally holds.
for a balanced rwd sports car, its not nearly as straightforward and a lot of things contribute and the reverse can sometimes be true.
just look at the SM suspension 700lb front, 325 lb rear, 27mm front, 15mm rear
that shit does NOT understeer
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - D_Eclipse9916 - 11-28-2012
Evan Wrote:CaptainHenreh Wrote:CaptainHenreh Wrote:To make it (the BRZ) understeer MORE than the FR-S.
Satisfied?
If you take two identical cars, give one stiff springs in the front and softer springs in the rear it's going to understeer more than the other one, all other things being equal (which isn't guaranteed...I don't have the rollbar thicknesses at hand)
FWIW, this, the interior, and money are likely all Toyota really contributed to the BRZ/86.
in the world of trying to get fwd commuter shitpiles to corner, the rule of thumb- stiffer in the rear = more oversteer generally holds.
for a balanced rwd sports car, its not nearly as straightforward and a lot of things contribute and the reverse can sometimes be true.
just look at the SM suspension 700lb front, 325 lb rear, 27mm front, 15mm rear
that shit does NOT understeer
Its also a double wish-bone suspension. Hard to compare spring rates at an oem location due to differing geometries (as you said).
It also depends on what you are starting with. If you have a 750F/800R spring rate like in my bmw and up the front sway bar, you induce less front grip. IF you had a stock m3, upping the front sway bar INCREASES front grip due to increase of roll stiffness (which you dont need with 750f/800r).
Generally for spring rates in the 150/200lb range on OEM vehicles, any increase helps grip. Struts dont like roll, they do weird things under compression.
Shit: did I agree with grouchy Evan? :lol:
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - CaptainHenreh - 05-09-2013
S2000 vs GT86 vs RX-8
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - D_Eclipse9916 - 05-09-2013
Is it sad that I REALLLLLLLLY want a BRZ to build for STX?
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - JustinG - 05-09-2013
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Is it sad that I REALLLLLLLLY want a BRZ to build for STX?
Yes.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - DavidL - 05-09-2013
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Is it sad that I REALLLLLLLLY want a BRZ to build for STX?
Or build an RX8 and be just as competitive and save $20k??
Have had some serious thoughts about the BRZ, but I just dont think I can do 200 hp
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - D_Eclipse9916 - 05-09-2013
DavidL Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Is it sad that I REALLLLLLLLY want a BRZ to build for STX?
Or build an RX8 and be just as competitive and save $20k??
Have had some serious thoughts about the BRZ, but I just dont think I can do 200 hp
Don't feel like building an expensive to rebuild Renesis motor every 20k miles, and get junk gas mileage while driving it around.
Re: The market is BEGGING.... - Evan - 05-09-2013
Early last year just about every automaker was talking about a BRZ/FR-S competitor and even a couple concept cars made the rounds. This year, nothing. I was looking forward to the competition but looks like for the foreseeable future the toyobaru is the only game in town.