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+--- Thread: Cars that get you all hot and bothered (/showthread.php?tid=3147)
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- JackoliciousLegs - 07-03-2008
arrghghghghghhh
- Goodspeed - 07-07-2008
![[Image: PS_070608_01.jpg]](http://www.dp6061.com/temp/PS_070608_01.jpg)
![[Image: PS_070608_02.jpg]](http://www.dp6061.com/temp/PS_070608_02.jpg)
![[Image: PS_070608_03.jpg]](http://www.dp6061.com/temp/PS_070608_03.jpg)
![[Image: PS_070608_04.jpg]](http://www.dp6061.com/temp/PS_070608_04.jpg)
![[Image: PS_021108_05.jpg]](http://www.atomicautostore.com/temp/PS_021108_05.jpg)
- Goodspeed - 07-07-2008
Holy shit balls.
![[Image: 2639000186_bd721c27d5_o.jpg]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/2639000186_bd721c27d5_o.jpg)
![[Image: _AJN6454.jpg]](http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/08%20Superlap%20July/_AJN6454.jpg)
- WRXtranceformed - 07-07-2008
That front fascia looks like it's the anti-Christ of aerodynamics.
- Evan - 07-07-2008
The irony is that those bullshit canards drag off at least 10mph at the end of a straight. A couple guys who race tried them on their race cars and got severely lower top speeds and slower lap times.
Unless you have a multimillion dollar windtunnel and a proper engineering/fabrication department, you're just a punk poseur trying to look like a JGTC/DTM/Whatever touring car.
- REED - 07-07-2008
does everything about Miata's have to be so...."cute"..... that has to be the tiniest front mount I've ever seen.
I know it has to do with the size of the engine/turbo, but come on i'm sure they could have filled out that grill opening a little better
- Evan - 07-07-2008
hah...I was thinking the same thing
btw, is he using ARP head studs to hold the wheels together? thats pretty pimp if he is
- Goodspeed - 07-07-2008
Evan Wrote:hah...I was thinking the same thing
btw, is he using ARP head studs to hold the wheels together? thats pretty pimp if he is
Ha, who knows. The guy is from Daytona Beach, Fla. and works for CCW, so I'm sure he knows what he's doing :wink: My favorite wheels ever.
Ever.
- D_Eclipse9916 - 07-08-2008
Evan Wrote:The irony is that those bullshit canards drag off at least 10mph at the end of a straight. A couple guys who race tried them on their race cars and got severely lower top speeds and slower lap times.
Unless you have a multimillion dollar windtunnel and a proper engineering/fabrication department, you're just a punk poseur trying to look like a JGTC/DTM/Whatever touring car.
I have to ask, what type of cars were these tried on? Miatas with very little power, or cars that need more traction the ground on high speed sweepers with a lot of power?
There has been a lot of debate on cars with a lot of horsepower on speed on the straightaways compared to stability through sweepers. I know my car gets light at around 130-140 on summit's straightaway, and I get VERY light between turn 9-10 at summit, definitely suggesting the need for both more front and rear downforce. And pretty much 3,4,8,9,10 I need a LOT more downforce and I could pull a lot more speed in and out of those turns.
To me (I am not a mechanical engineer keep in mind), I want to find a balance between stability and speed, just as I would take lessons from many grand touring cars. Yeah it may increase drag, but I do need that extra shit keeping me on the ground. If I actually hit the throttle hard and kept on it till the braking point from 9-10, when I hit that hill, the back end would DEFINITELY come around on me. In a miata, I can see how this would be a much different issue.
Hopefully a simple splitter up front and boxing in the rear end will reduce the lift up front and rear that I wont need anything ugly or insane.
- D_Eclipse9916 - 07-08-2008
Evan Wrote:The irony is that those bullshit canards drag off at least 10mph at the end of a straight. A couple guys who race tried them on their race cars and got severely lower top speeds and slower lap times.
Unless you have a multimillion dollar windtunnel and a proper engineering/fabrication department, you're just a punk poseur trying to look like a JGTC/DTM/Whatever touring car.
I have to ask, what type of cars were these tried on? Miatas with very little power, or cars that need more traction the ground on high speed sweepers with a lot of power?
There has been a lot of debate on cars with a lot of horsepower on speed on the straightaways compared to stability through sweepers. I know my car gets light at around 130-140 on summit's straightaway, and I get VERY light between turn 9-10 at summit, definitely suggesting the need for both more front and rear downforce. And pretty much 3,4,8,9,10 I need a LOT more downforce and I could pull a lot more speed in and out of those turns.
To me (I am not a mechanical engineer keep in mind), I want to find a balance between stability and speed, just as I would take lessons from many grand touring cars. Yeah it may increase drag, but I do need that extra shit keeping me on the ground. If I actually hit the throttle hard and kept on it till the braking point from 9-10, when I hit that hill, the back end would DEFINITELY come around on me. In a miata, I can see how this would be a much different issue.
Hopefully a simple splitter up front and boxing in the rear end will reduce the lift up front and rear that I wont need anything ugly or insane.
- Mike - 07-08-2008
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Evan Wrote:The irony is that those bullshit canards drag off at least 10mph at the end of a straight. A couple guys who race tried them on their race cars and got severely lower top speeds and slower lap times.
Unless you have a multimillion dollar windtunnel and a proper engineering/fabrication department, you're just a punk poseur trying to look like a JGTC/DTM/Whatever touring car.
Hopefully a simple splitter up front and boxing in the rear end will reduce the lift up front and rear that I wont need anything ugly or insane.
ya, i'm pretty sure that'll do the trick.
a guy made his own and spent a lot of time configuring them for his swapped hatch a few years ago. lap times stayed the same (or got a touch slower) and his top speed on straights was reduced by a few. more applicable to your car than a miata since it had some power, but still not very much relatively, and it is a lightweight.
- .RJ - 07-08-2008
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:And pretty much 3,4,8,9,10 I need a LOT more downforce and I could pull a lot more speed in and out of those turns
There is going to be far more to gain in the driver, suspension, and tires (in that order) than playing with aero parts.
- Mike - 07-08-2008
.RJ Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:And pretty much 3,4,8,9,10 I need a LOT more downforce and I could pull a lot more speed in and out of those turns
There is going to be far more to gain in the driver.
ut-oh...
- .RJ - 07-08-2008
True story :dunno:
- Evan - 07-08-2008
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:I have to ask, what type of cars were these tried on? Miatas with very little power, or cars that need more traction the ground on high speed sweepers with a lot of power?
There has been a lot of debate on cars with a lot of horsepower on speed on the straightaways compared to stability through sweepers. I know my car gets light at around 130-140 on summit's straightaway, and I get VERY light between turn 9-10 at summit, definitely suggesting the need for both more front and rear downforce. And pretty much 3,4,8,9,10 I need a LOT more downforce and I could pull a lot more speed in and out of those turns.
To me (I am not a mechanical engineer keep in mind), I want to find a balance between stability and speed, just as I would take lessons from many grand touring cars. Yeah it may increase drag, but I do need that extra shit keeping me on the ground. If I actually hit the throttle hard and kept on it till the braking point from 9-10, when I hit that hill, the back end would DEFINITELY come around on me. In a miata, I can see how this would be a much different issue.
Hopefully a simple splitter up front and boxing in the rear end will reduce the lift up front and rear that I wont need anything ugly or insane.
not miatas (and I knew one of you JDM rulezzz!! fuckers would try to play that card
) but regardless, aerodynamics apply to any vehicle, and in fact a higher hp car is going to be harmed much more by poor aero. And I gaur-un-teee that my little miata is carrying more speed through those "high speed sweepers" than that monstrosity.your assumption is that those canards do anything other than cause drag and turbulence at the front end anyway. You're also assuming that a ton of 'aero' is going to fix those problems that you are talking about. (which to be honest, would more likely be fixed by a more sensitive throttle foot)
Simple things that work and are proven without a windtunnel, like an airdam/splitter as close to the ground as you can get to keep air out from under the car, flatten the bottom of the car, depressurize the cabin, take off the mirrors, diffusing the air coming off the roof and under the car are good ideas.
- D_Eclipse9916 - 07-08-2008
Mike Wrote:.RJ Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:And pretty much 3,4,8,9,10 I need a LOT more downforce and I could pull a lot more speed in and out of those turns
There is going to be far more to gain in the driver.
ut-oh...
Typical Mike response.
RJ typical response, I am in HPDEs for a reason, its like you guys dont even think about this. I do HPDE to learn and ive told many people that even if I got the opportunity (which I got asked btw) to advance, id stay in HPDE2 for the instructor where ive gotten one good one and many other bad ones. But ive stilled learned a lot from those instructors, which omgosh im in because there is "more gained gain in the driver". However, why wouldnt you want to maximize your car so that it is more stabile at high speeds? Your saying I should ignore what my car is telling me becuase I need to be a better driver instead of maximizing my car setup? Im out there to learn how to drive, and when im not driving I should be setting up my car properly. It seems just a waste to tell me to learn how to drive more, when ive been out there more than can be said at any of you at my age. Most of you said you hadnt even done a driver education till out of college or senior year. Im out there, and im learning, of course more can be had from learning to drive, THATS WHY IM DOING IT. To ignore helping your own car's setup and stability is stupid, I bet you dont do that, but as soon as I have to modify my car to be more stabile, "theres more to be gained in the driver" is just a comment to provoke this response. And this response you just got. Congradulations!
- .RJ - 07-08-2008
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Your saying I should ignore what my car is telling me becuase I need to be a better driver instead of maximizing my car setup?
I'm going to filter through all of your post, dripping with condescending remarks and go straight for the meat of it right there.
I did not say you should ignore your car - go back and re read my post, I promise you its not there. I just told you what is going to give you the biggest returns on your investment (time, money, etc) in order of importance. Go read it again, seriously.
That said, yes you should stop dicking with the car. If you continue to change the car you're just going to be chasing a moving target because the faster you go, the car is going to respond differently. Unless there a serious safety concern (i.e. 400hp and 10" brake rotors) then there's not much need to go after the car - especially with things that are often poorly understood and get quickly into the realm of diminishing returns (like aero on a production car). It is VERY easy to get into the trap of changing the car to go faster when in reality you're probably pissing into the wind. At an HPDE2 level (and this is not a personal attack so keep your panties together) you dont have the experience, consistency or sensitivity to really evaluate changes and determine if they are in the right direction. I've had this same discussion with MANY students in the paddock. You need seat time if you want to go faster, not wings and anodized JDM suspension parts.
I think everyone should start doing DE's in a low HP car on street tires but the cats already out of the bag with this one, and I understand its hard to go back to something with no power after having teh boost.
My advice, and its worth what you paid for it.
- D_Eclipse9916 - 07-08-2008
.RJ Wrote:D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Your saying I should ignore what my car is telling me becuase I need to be a better driver instead of maximizing my car setup?
I'm going to filter through all of your post, dripping with condescending remarks and go straight for the meat of it right there.
I did not say you should ignore your car - go back and re read my post, I promise you its not there. I just told you what is going to give you the biggest returns on your investment (time, money, etc) in order of importance. Go read it again, seriously.
That said, yes you should stop dicking with the car. If you continue to change the car you're just going to be chasing a moving target because the faster you go, the car is going to respond differently. Unless there a serious safety concern (i.e. 400hp and 10" brake rotors) then there's not much need to go after the car - especially with things that are often poorly understood and get quickly into the realm of diminishing returns (like aero on a production car). It is VERY easy to get into the trap of changing the car to go faster when in reality you're probably pissing into the wind. At an HPDE2 level (and this is not a personal attack so keep your panties together) you dont have the experience, consistency or sensitivity to really evaluate changes and determine if they are in the right direction. I've had this same discussion with MANY students in the paddock. You need seat time if you want to go faster, not wings and anodized JDM suspension parts.
I think everyone should start doing DE's in a low HP car on street tires but the cats already out of the bag with this one, and I understand its hard to go back to something with no power after having teh boost.
My advice, and its worth what you paid for it.
Lol exactly what I said, wouldnt read the rest. :lol:
I wanted the aero for stability, which I said in the original post I made in this thread, was a problem because I could not maximize my driving abiltiies, because the car would step out because a setup issue. As ive said, its my daily driver, I change it because I like to modify my car. I said time and again I would love a spec miata for track because its consistent and I can pit myself against cars that are "for the most part" very similiar.
Now ask Maeng and Andy, ive been out there every chance I can get, being a college student with very little time to get my car ready and out for a weekend when I have to sometimes meet with a stupid college student group has made me unavailable maybe once out of the how many track events have we had in that past year? I guess you can blame me I missed (which I still was at and worked) one track event before I left for China, as I blew up my engine at VIR the previous track weekend. I am trying to become a better driver, and I have said, the car is a crutch because I am nowhere near the limits of the car and its hindering my learning. But to say I should be focusing on driving and learning...I am, im out there, im out to every autocross, track event, and karting event. I dont see what other events you could try to get me out to within my budget and time frame. I even crewed for a 12 hour team last year, which id love to do again given the opportunity.
I am not asking for credit, I know im still a shitty driver, but im out there doing what I can to learn, and to insult me by saying "id gain more from being a better driver", is just a way to try to pull me down.
- .RJ - 07-08-2008
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:was a problem because I could not maximize my driving abiltiies, because the car would step out because a setup issue.
And why do you think the fix is aero? Many of those problems are likely to be 'cured' by suspension setup and changes in inputs to the steering/brake/throttle.
There are plenty of places at summit where the car 'feels' light due to the road surface/camber changes and thats just how it is. You can still go faster (to a point).
- CaptainHenreh - 07-08-2008
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:I am not asking for credit, I know im still a shitty driver, but im out there doing what I can to learn, and to insult me by saying "id gain more from being a better driver", is just a way to try to pull me down.
No one is insulting you, dumbass. (Except for me, just now.)
They're saying: "Spend your money where it matters: Time on the track. Worry about your car when you can outdrive it."
Did your instructor say "Damn, you need some aero work on this car because it gets light in corner X" No? Then stfu, he's an instructor because he knows more than you.
Jesus Christ.