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+--- Thread: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) (/showthread.php?tid=11293)
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - ScottyB - 12-01-2017
![[Image: TMT6541-RED-TH-DESIGN.jpg?1500469047]](https://teeshirtpalace-production.s3.amazonaws.com/spree/images/TMT6541-RED-TH-DESIGN/large/TMT6541-RED-TH-DESIGN.jpg?1500469047)
this year has been a hell of a ride. WTF is 2018 going to do to top this? wait, please don't i don't want to evaporate in a nuclear detonation
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - CaptainHenreh - 12-01-2017
(12-01-2017, 05:35 PM)ScottyB Wrote:2018:
this year has been a hell of a ride. WTF is 2018 going to do to top this? wait, please don't i don't want to evaporate in a nuclear detonation
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/XXo6LQ3Ujyy2s/giphy.gif)
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - G.Irish - 12-01-2017
Well, as predicted, Flynn flipped to save his skin and potentially the skin of his son. And you have to figure if he's getting let off with just a lyin' to the Feds charge, he has given them extremely valuable evidence and/or testimony that will implicate the Trump admin.
We've already found out that Kushner is the one who directed him to try to make a deal with the Russian Ambassador. Kushner is probably the next guy who is gonna get a visit from the men in black.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - HAULN-SS - 12-01-2017
Admittedly not following it all very closely at all. What do you think it will implicate the Trump admin in actually doing? Influencing the election? The charges stem from a date post election. Why didn't Obama/Comey pull some shit on Flynn, who they actually disliked, while still in power? Ok - so if it's not influencing the election, what were they actually trying to accomplish? IANAL but won't they need to establish a motive - or is that already established as something else?
I do think you're exactly right - whatever has happened, has happened precisely to save Flynn's son some grief. I don't have the exact quote but it sounded like the investigation has been taking a monetary and emotional toll on the family. I just can't figure out what any of them were attempting to accomplish.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - WRXtranceformed - 12-02-2017
I read about it and it had something to do about a final Obama-administration policy decision to try to throw Israel a middle finger before he left the office. I really never did understand Obama's beef with Netanyahu. Flynn was told to try to influence Russian and UN policy-makers to delay or vote against a specific decision regarding Israel. It's possible it could lead to further revelations about how Trump's crew got into talks with the Russians about the hacked Dem emails but it sounds like that's more of a media reach at this point.
And really barring something horrific, I don't believe that many people actually want Trump impeached due to the alternative in Pence
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Apoc - 12-02-2017
I think Lee's facts are pretty spot on, but I don't agree on the suggested outcome. The stock market had a mild panic today, which says something... and not just about speculators. My guess is it means the tax bill doesn't pass and then never gets passed because of the turmoil that's coming. I don't think it's going to end up where Deomcrats want, but I do think a few chips in the inner circle will fall.
I think people would be surprised by how many are willing to settle for Pence. He's bad for social progress, but he's predictable and operates within the confines of the establishment. Also, he's not a total fucking idiot.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - HAULN-SS - 12-02-2017
Had the senate passed the tax bill by the time you wrote this?
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - WRXtranceformed - 12-02-2017
And in other news, the media is still complete trash:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/01/media/abc-news-flynn-correction/index.html
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Jake - 12-04-2017
(12-02-2017, 02:01 AM)Apoc Wrote: I think people would be surprised by how many are willing to settle for Pence. He's bad for social progress, but he's predictable and operates within the confines of the establishment. Also, he's not a total fucking idiot.
Pence is complete scum, but he at least understands how government works (presumably) and can string sentences together (presumably) and present himself like an adult to the world (presumably) albeit one that's stuck in 1946. I don't want to say I'd prefer he be in office, but...
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - G.Irish - 12-04-2017
(12-01-2017, 10:37 PM)HAULN-SS Wrote: Admittedly not following it all very closely at all. What do you think it will implicate the Trump admin in actually doing? Influencing the election?From what is publicly known, these are some of the crimes members of the Trump admin may be guilty of:
- FARA violations
- Obstruction of justice
- Conspiracy against the United States
- Making false statements to the FBI
- Violation of the Logan Act
- Violation of the Hatch Act
- Emoluments violations
- Falsifying SF-86
- Money laundering
- Espionage
- FEC foreign assistance violation
- Conspiracy to commit kidnapping
Some of these crimes are already slam dunks from what we publicly know.
Papadopoulos and Flynn have already made plea deals to avoid some of those charges, but the only reason they would've been given deals is in return for valuable evidence for higher value targets. Given that the list of things Flynn did could've landed him in jail for decades, chances are good that he is giving the special counsel particularly damaging testimony and or evidence against Trump, Pence, Kushner and/or others.
Quote:The charges stem from a date post election. Why didn't Obama/Comey pull some shit on Flynn, who they actually disliked, while still in power?Obama fired Flynn and warned Trump about him, pre-inauguration. Elijah Cummings wrote Pence a letter warning about Flynn in November. Sally Yates warned the White House about Flynn about a week or so after inauguration.
Why wasn't Flynn put in jail then? Probably because the FBI was trying to snare more people than just him. When the Feds go after high profile cases like mafia bosses or espionage cases their goal is not just to score one or two people in jail. Their goal is to totally dismantle the criminal operation. With Flynn, by the time the Feds came after him, they probably had so much evidence that he was convinced that if he didn't take a deal and snitch on the Trump admin, he (and maybe his son) would be going to jail for a very long time. Same with Papadopoulos.
Quote:Ok - so if it's not influencing the election, what were they actually trying to accomplish? IANAL but won't they need to establish a motive - or is that already established as something else?Motive is not going to be a problem in this case. Gaining the power of the presidency and all of the associated spoils is plenty of motive.
Quote:I do think you're exactly right - whatever has happened, has happened precisely to save Flynn's son some grief. I don't have the exact quote but it sounded like the investigation has been taking a monetary and emotional toll on the family. I just can't figure out what any of them were attempting to accomplish.These guys were trying enrich themselves and subvert rule of law. Rule of law is going to slap them down HARD.
Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - JPolen01 - 12-04-2017
Anybody that thinks there is nothing on Flynn or that this is the best Mueller's team can do is out of their mind. Isn't the longest jail time sentence for lying to the FBI like 6 months? If that's true why wouldn't Flynn just say lock me up and I'll get it over with. He's already flipped on others who are just biding their time before their indictment.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Ryan T - 12-04-2017
(12-04-2017, 06:27 PM)JPolen01 Wrote: Isn't the longest jail time sentence for lying to the FBI like 6 months? If that's true why wouldn't Flynn just say lock me up and I'll get it over with. He's already flipped on others who are just biding their time before their indictment.
18 U.S.C. 1001, Making False Statements. Fined and imprisoned for up to 5 years, or 8 years if it involved domestic or international terrorism. Or 3 years as it pertains to 26 U.S.C. 7206. Either way, a decent chunk of time, plus all the civil rights you lose being convicted of a felony.
Additionally, simply denying guilt during questioning is not enough to be charged under 1001, you have to actually provide materially false information in some effort to avoid detection or mislead investigators. Simply saying “I didn’t do it” when there is proof you did doesn’t justify charges of false statements.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - JPolen01 - 12-19-2017
Here is a pretty easy to follow analysis of who benefits and by how much with the new tax "relief" plan.
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/571754894/charts-see-how-much-of-gop-tax-cuts-will-go-to-the-middle-class?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2048
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - WRXtranceformed - 12-19-2017
(12-19-2017, 10:42 AM)JPolen01 Wrote: Here is a pretty easy to follow analysis of who benefits and by how much with the new tax "relief" plan.
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/571754894/charts-see-how-much-of-gop-tax-cuts-will-go-to-the-middle-class?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2048
Looks like I'm gonna benefit now and after 2027, so not sad
I've seen a bunch of these charts and calculators and all of them say something slightly different, so I'm not sure what to believe. I'll wait and see how it impacts me real world over the next few years before I pass judgment
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - JPolen01 - 12-19-2017
It is interesting to see the percentage each income bracket benefits though. Hard to claim this is for the middle class with the biggest savings going to the $200k - $1million earners. 2027 is laughable when the "relief" sunsets.
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - WRXtranceformed - 12-19-2017
All true, but by the numbers there just aren't as many higher earners...and those higher earners pay more in taxes than most people make in a year (or two or ten). The bulk of US tax revenue is coming from the top, so I wasn't really surprised to see that relief. The middle to lower class just isn't experiencing that high of a burden so I also wasn't surprised to see their effective percentages not being as high. I think the challenge here is that people have differing opinions of what "middle class" is. In reality, any total household income of $75k to $35k is considered lower middle class. I would argue those on the lower end of that are really closer to lower class, a realistic lower middle income range would be $75-60k. So with all of that, an effective tax benefit of $100+ to almost $200 per month for the $75k-$200k household is pretty significant.
https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2016-update/
The data demonstrates that the U.S. individual income tax continues to be very progressive, borne mainly by the highest income earners.
- In 2014, 139.6 million taxpayers reported earning $9.71 trillion in adjusted gross income and paid $1.37 trillion in individual income taxes.
- The share of income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers rose to 20.6 percent in 2014. Their share of federal individual income taxes also rose, to 39.5 percent.
- In 2014, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.3 percent of all individual income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.7 percent.
- The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.1 percent).
- The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 27.1 percent individual income tax rate, which is more than seven times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.5 percent).
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - JPolen01 - 12-19-2017
I get that. So we can call a spade a spade. It's not tax "relief" for the middle class. It is a slight savings for some with a majority of savings for the wealthy and corporations. (This whole post is sarcasm)
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Apoc - 12-19-2017
Your view on progressive and regressive taxes depends largely on your economic views.
How about, instead, we agree it's not tax reform OR relief if it adds $1.4 trillion to the deficit?
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - WRXtranceformed - 12-19-2017
(12-19-2017, 12:34 PM)Apoc Wrote: Your view on progressive and regressive taxes depends largely on your economic views.
How about, instead, we agree it's not tax reform OR relief if it adds $1.4 trillion to the deficit?
I don't hate that. It's MERICA put it on the charge card!
RE: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Apoc - 12-19-2017
On that note, anyone have foreign investments that are more than a blended fund of international stock?