+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Technical (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Member's Projects (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=12)
+--- Thread: Project RS (/showthread.php?tid=6314)
Re: Project RS - WRXtranceformed - 10-16-2009
Scotty it looks like a beautiful rainbow!!! The rainbow of torque curve!
Re: Project RS - D_Eclipse9916 - 10-16-2009
Your going to be in open loop mode a lot on the highway, take a decent hit in your gas mileage. Itll be a lot smoother coming into the powerband tho...
Re: Project RS - ViPER1313 - 10-16-2009
ScottyB Wrote:obviously i'm leaving alot on the table especially at the highest rpm/load cells but again, i'm no real tuner. i also wasn't even going to attempt to take fuel OUT of the map without a wideband at least.
You did slightly lean out the highest RPM / load points.....
Re: Project RS - ScottyB - 10-16-2009
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Scotty it looks like a beautiful rainbow!!! The rainbow of torque curve!
ha! sorry for some reason (not you) i keep reading that line with a lispy MJ southpark voice and a limp wrist.... :lol:
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Your going to be in open loop mode a lot on the highway, take a decent hit in your gas mileage. Itll be a lot smoother coming into the powerband tho...
this is true. i am usually at 200 miles by a half tank. this morning i'm just breaking 165 right above half. but that powerrrr....mmm. of course it doesn't help that its getting cold so its sucking down gas in the morning. my justification is that 87 is cheaper so my fillups aren't costing any more than usual anyway.
i may go back one more time and lean things out below 3600 just a bit in the .7 and lower cells.
ViPER1313 Wrote:You did slightly lean out the highest RPM / load points.....
dammit...yeah, i lied. but it was only a little! :oops:
Re: Project RS - Maengelito - 10-16-2009
ScottyB Wrote:this is true. i am usually at 200 miles by a half tank. this morning i'm just breaking 165 right above half. but that powerrrr....mmm. of course it doesn't help that its getting cold so its sucking down gas in the morning. my justification is that 87 is cheaper so my fillups aren't costing any more than usual anyway.
Not sure if this warrants its own thread but has anyone else noticed their mpg's go in the shitter the last month or so? I'm not sure if its because there's more ethanol mixed in or if the winter gas blend has started or both but I've noticed a general decline of about 3 mpg's recently. Am I the only one noticing this?
Re: Project RS - BLINGMW - 10-16-2009
pretty standard: colder air, lower MPG
aerocivic was good :thumbup:
Re: Project RS - xvxax - 10-16-2009
Why does the car stay in open loop on the highway now? What is preventing the computer/ecu/whatever from deciding to go closed loop because of the leaner values? noob question, but I''ve always been interested in tuning (I think most gearheads are) but the maps I've seen are nowhere near that simple for bmws
.Maeng, I am not sure if this is related, but my truck has getting pretty pitiful mpg the last month (I have been monitoring mpgs since I bought it.) I haven't broken 18mpg average since my first tank, and that doesn't seem right to me. The truck weighs like 3300lbs and has a 210hp v6 in it.
Re: Project RS - JustinG - 10-16-2009
and its a truck, do you have a tonnaeu cover or shell or anything? You would be surprised the MPG increase you may get by simply letting the tailgate down if you don't have a shell or cover, reduces your drag obviously. I know on my dads f-150 super-crew his MPG went up when he put the camper shell on, granted only 2-3mpg but still.
Re: Project RS - D_Eclipse9916 - 10-16-2009
A car has parameteres for Open and Closed Loop mode such as engine temperature, engine speed, load (which is a calculation NOT REAL), and a multitude of different things for different cars.
First a quick refresher for those who dont know much about these terms Open and closed loop mode.
Your vehicle at idle, light load, and cruising is in what we call closed loop mode. This is where the ECM is monitoring your Oxygen Sensor as it swings back and forth to create the "optimum" AFR of 14.7. It also has to be at a certain temperature range etc etc. When it operates outside this range, letsss say you hit the gas, the ECM now ignores the oxygen sesnsor and looks to Intake Temperature, MAF Hertz, or MAP readings and "chooses" a certain map (tuning is actually 3 dimensions, this is why tuning is very hard when you get REALLLY picky, as it is not just a simple table, and there are a million variables).
Based on the pre-loaded table it has chosen, it will set a "target" AFR that is simply a calculation already built into the ECU based on those variables along with the volumetric efficiency of an engine. Scotty's table is those "targets" and I use that very loosely. This is Open Loop.
All the 14.7 is closed loop mode, (ps if you wanted to pick back up gas mileage, you could lean burn your closed loop mode), as you can see as "load" increases there is a certain point where it drops out of closed loop mode. Same with this rpms. Now you look at highway, and depending on how fast he is going, and wether it is a hill or descent or smooth will increase or decrease load. He has now changed the parameters for when the car enters closed loop mode, now it is open loop for "more time" and the possibklity of being in open loop during "highway cruise loads". Thats why he will be seeing a decrease in gas mileage.
Re: Project RS - D_Eclipse9916 - 10-16-2009
white97dsm Wrote:and its a truck, do you have a tonnaeu cover or shell or anything? You would be surprised the MPG increase you may get by simply letting the tailgate down if you don't have a shell or cover, reduces your drag obviously. I know on my dads f-150 super-crew his MPG went up when he put the camper shell on, granted only 2-3mpg but still.
Proven wrong, mythbusters did a thing about wether you should have the pickup gate closed or open and I think it was a 1.5% difference. Not anything any of us would notice. Now...a camper shelll may be different.
Also Maeng, Ethanol is actually reduced during winter months, this is because of its bad cold-starting properties. In the west, E85 is actually only about E60 during their "winter blend", pretty frustrating for those who tune on the edge, they have to make sure to get the summer blend.
Ethanol also is reducing our gas mileage, it is figured that 33% worse gas mileage with Ethanol due to the burning of Ethanol producing less power. (dont confuse this with your car having less power). In fact, Ethanol is awesome for getting the most power, as it burns at a lower temperature and has an "effective" octane rating of 108. Its race gas...for the street, you just use 33% more of it. If we had more than one public station in VA I would have switched despite the cold-starting problems
Re: Project RS - JustinG - 10-16-2009
but it was a difference!!!!!
Re: Project RS - Mike - 10-16-2009
white97dsm Wrote:but it was a difference!!!!!
yeah, that's enough of a dfference that i don't think they really debunked anything...
Re: Project RS - ScottyB - 10-16-2009
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:All the 14.7 is closed loop mode, (ps if you wanted to pick back up gas mileage, you could lean burn your closed loop mode), as you can see as "load" increases there is a certain point where it drops out of closed loop mode. Same with this rpms. Now you look at highway, and depending on how fast he is going, and wether it is a hill or descent or smooth will increase or decrease load. He has now changed the parameters for when the car enters closed loop mode, now it is open loop for "more time" and the possibklity of being in open loop during "highway cruise loads". Thats why he will be seeing a decrease in gas mileage.
this is pretty much right on. there is a "closed loop delay" value in subaru ECU's in which at any point the ECU recognizes that it's time to switch to open loop, the computer instead starts a timer. this is to retain gas mileage during small periods of increased throttle, and it's played havoc with the subaru turbo cars especially. my delay is now zeroed, so anything more than a slight change in throttle will cause an immediate jump to the richer open map - which is what i want. of course throttle change is only part of it - also factoring in calculated load as mentioned. going up a hill at 70 mph for instance, i will definitely be in OL. before, the car would resist moving to OL and then when it would, the OL values would be no different than the CL values....and if i wasn't on 93 in the debt of winter, there was quite a bit of detonation until passing 4k rpm or so.
there is a happy medium that is still to be found. i may bring in a little closed loop delay just for MPG sake or i might lean out the closed loop or low-load OL values. however, that is more advanced than where i'm at, and i don't have the proper equipment yet to really do a complete tune.
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Proven wrong, mythbusters did a thing about wether you should have the pickup gate closed or open and I think it was a 1.5% difference. Not anything any of us would notice. Now...a camper shelll may be different.
fun fact: the optimal orientation is a half open/half closed tonneau cover as seen below on the old syclone land speed truck. the open part is in the front. i always thought that was really weird.
![[Image: syclone.jpg]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dsuvwqZD4rk/SSHfmTj6m3I/AAAAAAAAAms/AgNv7n_AcdY/s400/syclone.jpg)
back on topic....
Re: Project RS - ScottyB - 10-30-2009
the lateral links won't work so those are getting sold to a local STi wagon project. found out after i bought them that they don't fit on my car
![[Image: Picard2.gif]](http://rubicant5x.com/smiley/Picard2.gif)
because i'm an idiot and didn't do my research.however, found a great deal on some trailing links with group N bushings so those are on the way. i'd love to have the entire rear of the car decked with group N bushings but the trailing links make one of the biggest differences so i'm feeling good about bang for the buck. should result in more neutral cornering and less driveline slop.
headed for the hills last weekend to enjoy some roads and scenery. found some fun forrest access roads too.
![[Image: DSC_7339.jpg]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/scottyb226/DSC_7339.jpg)
![[Image: DSC_7341.jpg]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/scottyb226/DSC_7341.jpg)
![[Image: DSC_7347.jpg]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/scottyb226/DSC_7347.jpg)
Re: Project RS - ScottyB - 11-14-2009
added some fender braces today. sounds pretty snake-oily but after reading about people rave about them for months i decided to procure a used set for myself and see what was up. the idea is that the subaru unibody is a bit noodly between the cowl and fender area. imprezas come with braces here from the factory but they're pretty worthless. in 2007 subaru added a significantly beefier brace to the STi so there's reason to believe they do something.
after installing them i was pretty surprised. turn in is noticably increased and the car holds a line a little better at "backroads" speeds. i wasn't expecting to feel any difference until much higher speeds. i'd say if any impreza owners here are interested in a cheap and quick upgrade to the front end a used set of braces or a set of '07 STi braces would be a nice addition...although i wouldn't pay full price for pimpy new ones for what they do.
stamped tin can stockies
![[Image: 3571689029_7bbaca922d.jpg]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3351/3571689029_7bbaca922d.jpg)
new set, custom machined out of an aluminum slab. they get the job done.
![[Image: DSC_7246.jpg]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/scottyb226/DSC_7246.jpg)
for installation, you would need a screwdriver for popping the inner fender out. you'll need a 10mm socket for loosening the fender a bit to pull it out for another 5 or 6 mm of room as well as taking off a fender liner fastener. you'll need a 14mm socket and/or 14mm ratcheting wrench for the lowest 3 bolts and a 14mm open end wrench and similar drive breaker bar w/universal drive for the top bolt. the bolts are painted on (they were there when the chassis was dipped at the factory) so you have to put some anger into it. once the bottom 3 bolts are off swing the brace down to get access to the top one. put the open end wrench on it and put the universal joint in the other end for leverage. installation of the aftermarket braces is super easy since almost all of them are either flat or give plenty of room.
this is where they go.
![[Image: fenderbrace%20after.jpg]](http://jester.egn.com.au/retsej/fenderbrace%20after.jpg)
Re: Project RS - WRXtranceformed - 11-16-2009
Awesome haha... leave it to Suby enthusiasts to scrutinize the chassis to the point where they are removing bumpers and adding frame reinforcement in random places
Re: Project RS - ScottyB - 05-25-2010
so, this thread is being resurrected. you may recall i was selling this car. funny turn of events has led to me keeping it for a while after sales fell through. basically i got it in my head i needed money for other investments pronto and that i would be doing lots of track days so i'd sell it for something really beater-ish. turns out i don't need that money as much right now and i still hope to do a track day, but won't be out there all the time like i thought so it doesn't make sense to dump it.
i also just really like it and as usual i've become sentimental and grumpy at the thought of sending it away. i'm having fun with it after all this time so i'll just keep on keepin' on.
had to change the valve cover gaskets due to seeing oil in the spark plug tubes last time i changed plugs. not a bad job at all but mostly it was cool to see the inside of the head after 75k:
![[Image: 0003.jpg]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f270/scottyb226/0003.jpg)
looks nice, at least alot nicer than my old A4 after 90k. that's with averaging 6k mile synth oil change intervals over the life of the car. i know i should go longer, just a bad old habit to change more often.
still aiming for a practical do-it-all DD that's also fun, so next up will be struts (the current STi's are going) and hopefully some wheels/tires. after that it's on to heat management for tracking...ducting, camber, and increasing hub life.
Re: Project RS - Steve85 - 05-25-2010
I don't think the outside of my car gets that clean...
Re: Project RS - ScottyB - 05-25-2010
Steve85 Wrote:I don't think the outside of my car gets that clean...
right now, neither of mine do either
Re: Project RS - WRXtranceformed - 05-30-2010
Looks good man, glad that boxer is still ticking!