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+--- Thread: Say goodbye to the wimpy 500 hp Viper (/showthread.php?tid=5229)
- CaptainHenreh - 12-29-2006
Well, with the GTO, "they" were expecting this:
![[Image: 1969pontiacgtojudge.JPG]](http://www.pjsautoworld.com/1960cars/1969pontiacgtojudge.JPG)
And were disappointed when they got this:
![[Image: 2006.pontiac.gto.jpg]](http://www.edmunds.com/media/seo/500/2006.pontiac.gto.jpg)
I said from the beginning that the biggest mistake GM made with the GTO was calling it a "GTO". The thought the name and nostalgia would sell it and it *didn't*. Totally backfired on them. It's not a bad car, and the trick was that for GM, they could offer it cheaply. They could give the people their cheap muscle car, because all the tooling, all the manufacturing, all the design was already done! It was a great plan and honestly I still don't know exactly how it fucked up. If I thought I could swing the payment (and believe me, I've run the numbers a dozen times) I'd buy one. Wouldn't even think twice.
And don't get me started with the Charger. Mike hates the GTO, I hate the Charger. Automatic only. Pssh. Eat a D, Diamler-Chrysler.
I also wish GM had just left the styling alone:
![[Image: i.holden.monaro.CV8.JPG]](http://www.nextcar.com.au/i.holden.monaro.CV8.JPG)
Isn't that better?
- Goodspeed - 12-29-2006
I think the reason why it failed is very simple, the American consumers just plain didn't like the way it looked. Looking at those two pictures you posted, there really is no resemblance between the classic GTO and the Holden Monaro, because the car was exactly that in the first place, a Holden that had no ties to the GTO and thus had no obligation to try and look like one. With the retro styling thing going on lately, the GTO stuck out as a design failure. Maybe its just me but thats what always stuck out to me as the reason why it failed. I think there are some fundamentally different automotive design philosophies between the world markets...this same car is successful in Australia and in Europe under the Vauxhall badge, but it just didn't take off in the States
- Ginger - 12-29-2006
Goodspeed Wrote:With the retro styling thing going on lately, the GTO stuck out as a design failure.
That's interesting. I've heard, on more than one occasion, the "retro' trend called an inherent failure because it's just plain dumb. Is bombing on a retro concept that was a bomb in and of itself a plan for extra failure? Or maybe people want to look like they're keeping up with the Joneses instead of actually doing it.
- Feersty - 12-29-2006
I like the GTO and its styling, over the top is something that I am not a big fan of. Subtly is what I like.
- ViPER1313 - 12-29-2006
Who cares about the Viper / Charger when you can buy this 8)
- CaptainHenreh - 12-29-2006
ViPER1313 Wrote:Who cares about the Viper / Charger when you can buy this 8)
Because you, um, can't?
Also, Top Gear loves the GTO:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G99DE4VMl4k&mode=related&search=">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G99DE4VM ... ed&search=</a><!-- m -->
- Mike - 12-29-2006
yes, gto is hideous. it looks just like a grand prix or grand am... it's the f'ing kidney shaped grilles. i agree, if they had left it looking like the monaro, it would have sold very well. hell, i'd have maybe even bought one! i can't dig on a grand prix w/ 400hp.
- WRXtranceformed - 12-29-2006
Blue Devil 'Vette >>>>>> New Viper
That's all I have to contribute =P
- CaptainHenreh - 12-29-2006
Mike Wrote:yes, gto is hideous. it looks just like a grand prix or grand am... it's the f'ing kidney shaped grilles. i agree, if they had left it looking like the monaro, it would have sold very well. hell, i'd have maybe even bought one! i can't dig on a grand prix w/ 400hp.
You're so weird, mike. You say a car is hideous because of a *grill*. Hint: You can't see the grill when you're in the car doing a PTC, or whatever you do in the S2K.
- Evan - 12-29-2006
*shrug*
I think the car looks far better in Pontiac trim than the blander-than-watered-down-milk holden frontend.
And Im with Rex, I think its a fantastic car and I really dont understand why it didnt sell better. If the Chrysler v8 monstrositys sell well, no reason on earth the Ponty shouldnt.
- Goodspeed - 12-29-2006
Vauxhall Monaro styling > Pontiac/Holden
![[Image: monarovxr0501xr0.jpg]](http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/6841/monarovxr0501xr0.jpg)
![[Image: 2005vauxhallmonarovxrrawk5.jpg]](http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1989/2005vauxhallmonarovxrrawk5.jpg)
- G.Irish - 12-29-2006
That Vauxhall looks a bit better but overall I think the Monaro and GTO styling was too bland for American tastes. Slapping some hood scoops on certainly isn't gonna cut it. Maybe if it wasn't named GTO it would've done better but that's hard to say.
Anyway I think the 600 hp Viper is cool but they sure are going to look stupid if the Corvette one-ups them in the next year. EIther way both of those cars are probably faster than anything Europe can offer for under $150k.
- Ginger - 12-29-2006
The 500 horse viper went almost the same time around Willow that the Z4/M did, which is definitely saying something. I guess faster's relative; it'll certainly mop up in the hands of the lead footed ego maniacs that'll probably have the wallets to bring them home. If it'll merge on to the freeway faster than Porsche's price competitor then it's a winner, right?
- Mike - 12-29-2006
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Mike Wrote:yes, gto is hideous. it looks just like a grand prix or grand am... it's the f'ing kidney shaped grilles. i agree, if they had left it looking like the monaro, it would have sold very well. hell, i'd have maybe even bought one! i can't dig on a grand prix w/ 400hp.
You're so weird, mike. You say a car is hideous because of a *grill*. Hint: You can't see the grill when you're in the car doing a PTC, or whatever you do in the S2K.
thinking a grille ruins a car is not valid in rex's world? does this mean *gasp* we have rexy rules?
- Evan - 12-29-2006
asteele2 Wrote:The 500 horse viper went almost the same time around Willow that the Z4/M did,dont ever quote that jeremy clarkson british jackoff video as a reliable source FYI
- HAULN-SS - 12-30-2006
I drove one of those GTOs, would have bought it if my mom hadn't insisted i get something with at least FWD(AWD preferrably). It really did ride well, and had great seating position. Sure it doenst look anything like a GTO, but when you're at 60mph in 2nd gear mergning on the freeway in the first 350 feet of pavement..it's a fun feeling.
I'm not a fan of the chrysler offerings because they are so much more expensive. The SRT charger was like 38 and the GTO was lik 31
- CaptainHenreh - 12-30-2006
Mike Wrote:thinking a grille ruins a car is not valid in rex's world? does this mean *gasp* we have rexy rules?
If thinking a grille ruins an otherwise pretty cool and cheap car is a Rexy Rule, then I say bring on the Rexy Rules!
Here, we'll lay them out:
Rexy Rule #1:
If a car is under 30 grand, with at least 350 horsepower, a six speed transmission and a IRS --- IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
- Goodspeed - 12-30-2006
CaptainHenreh Wrote:If a car is under 30 grand, with at least 350 horsepower, a six speed transmission and a IRS --- IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
Was the GTO ever under 30 grand new? I don't know the exact figures, but everywhere I looked online for 2004-2006 GTO prices, the MSRP's were 32-33 grand. I know they go for MUCH cheaper slightly used now...
- Mike - 12-30-2006
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Mike Wrote:thinking a grille ruins a car is not valid in rex's world? does this mean *gasp* we have rexy rules?
If thinking a grille ruins an otherwise pretty cool and cheap car is a Rexy Rule, then I say bring on the Rexy Rules!
Here, we'll lay them out:
Rexy Rule #1:
If a car is under 30 grand, with at least 350 horsepower, a six speed transmission and a IRS --- IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
congrats.
- WRXtranceformed - 12-30-2006
Yeah they're pretty much giving away those GTOs now. Probably because they're slow for what they are. A car like that in stock trim is a muscle car strip warrior, and real world strip times from those cars are laughable... mainly because they're incredibly hard to launch. With a decent investment in mods they can become a complete animal, but anything gets fast when you throw money at it.
I have heard good things about the fit and finish of them though.