+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown (/showthread.php?tid=11801)
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - G.Irish - 10-29-2018
I figure I'd have to pay property tax but I'll just say it's a McBrit Kitcar 3000 that's worth only $30k. If they balk I'll just take it apart again.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - Kaan - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 02:03 PM)G.Irish Wrote: I figure I'd have to pay property tax but I'll just say it's a McBrit Kitcar 3000 that's worth only $30k. If they balk I'll just take it apart again.
you might not want this in writing
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - Jake - 10-29-2018
Lee mentioned something about property tax on leases. No idea how any other OEM does it, but my Ford does not require that I pay any property taxes. It's basically a rental car.
I am with DJ on the trailer registration, the property taxes and such are not that much, and I'd rather know I'm 100% legal with it versus take chances otherwise.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - CaptainHenreh - 10-29-2018
Taxation is theft.
That's all I really have to contribute.
Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - Senor_Taylor - 10-29-2018
Y'all saying you would rather be safe are definitely not the same camp as people buying a Veyron and facing 150k in sales tax.
That's insane to think that you get taxed on the money you make, then have to shell out that much again when you buy something.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - JPolen01 - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 02:51 PM)CaptainHenreh Wrote: Taxation is theft.
That's all I really have to contribute.
Was wondering when you would arrive
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - Kaan - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 02:51 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: Y'all saying you would rather be safe are definitely not the same camp as people buying a Veyron and facing 150k in sales tax.
That's insane to think that you get taxed on the money you make, then have to shell out that much again when you buy something.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
you are going to have give a crap ton more out of your salary to get rid of the car tax... with our current spending rates.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - CaptainHenreh - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 02:51 PM)JPolen01 Wrote:(10-29-2018, 02:51 PM)CaptainHenreh Wrote: Taxation is theft.
That's all I really have to contribute.
Was wondering when you would arrive
I'm here.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - Evan - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 02:51 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: Y'all saying you would rather be safe are definitely not the same camp as people buying a Veyron and facing 150k in sales tax.
That's insane to think that you get taxed on the money you make, then have to shell out that much again when you buy something.
And then shell out again every year you own it. Just because you still own it.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - .RJ - 10-29-2018
TIL....
(10-29-2018, 02:45 PM)Jake Wrote: Ford does not require that I pay any property taxes. It's basically a rental car.
That makes leasing seem more attractive to me, unless of course Ford is just passing through that tax bill in the lease terms.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - G.Irish - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 02:51 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: Y'all saying you would rather be safe are definitely not the same camp as people buying a Veyron and facing 150k in sales tax.
That's insane to think that you get taxed on the money you make, then have to shell out that much again when you buy something.
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
You get taxed on just about everything you buy though. You don't get bent out of shape when you pay 10 cents tax on a candy bar because you can easily afford a candy bar. If you've got enough money to afford a Chiron (the Veyron is ugly), you have enough money to pay the tax. $200k is a lot of money but when you're worth 8 or 9 figures it's not that much money relative to your net worth.
And if you wanna think outside the box, just get a much cheaper car and put the Veyron engine in it. You can even put scissor doors on your W16 powered E30 and come out ahead, at least until it catches on fire and kills you.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - Apoc - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 03:16 PM)G.Irish Wrote: You don't get bent out of shape when you pay 10 cents tax on a candy bar
Speak for yourself - https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Initiative_1634,_Prohibit_Local_Taxes_on_Groceries_Measure_(2018)
Part of the reason I'm somewhat okay with our high sales tax rate is because we have no state income tax. I'd rather use tax than income tax. That said, I've been known to ship things to Mikey is OR because they have no sales tax.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - WRXtranceformed - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 02:45 PM)Jake Wrote: Lee mentioned something about property tax on leases. No idea how any other OEM does it, but my Ford does not require that I pay any property taxes. It's basically a rental car.
I am with DJ on the trailer registration, the property taxes and such are not that much, and I'd rather know I'm 100% legal with it versus take chances otherwise.
Your lease company isn't going to require that you pay your property tax, it's your local municipality. NC and SC both require that you pay your property tax on your vehicle before they will renew your registration every year. So if you aren't paying property tax on your truck, it's because your area doesn't have a car tax. My guess is that you just haven't seen the yearly bill for it yet.
FYI my brother leases his S3 and had to pay property tax in VA and in DC when he just moved (you can request a prorated refund if you move or sell the vehicle, which I always do. I just got a few hundo back from the state for my Canyon). It isn't tied to a specific make of car.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - Evan - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 03:16 PM)G.Irish Wrote: You get taxed on just about everything you buy though. You don't get bent out of shape when you pay 10 cents tax on a candy bar because you can easily afford a candy bar. If you've got enough money to afford a Chiron (the Veyron is ugly), you have enough money to pay the tax. $200k is a lot of money but when you're worth 8 or 9 figures it's not that much money relative to your net worth.And if you sell your candy bar to your buddy, he doesn't pay tax on it. (Unless you buy it as a re-seller, which then you dont pay tax)
And if you keep your candy bar for a year, you dont pay more tax on it. (And if you did, the percentage of that tax would not go up if you had a godiva candy bar)
I would hope that a car enthusiast of all people would understand that "ordinary" people who love cars should be able to save their pennies and splurge on an expensive car without being labelled "rich" and overtaxed.
Every year in October I want to sell my Lotus due to the tax bill and its not even worth all that much.
warning: tangent ahead
And thats before we even get into the fact that 40% of the planet doesnt even have clean water to drink. Almost every single American is RICH in a human perspective. This "tax the rich" attitude is just a populist excuse to steal people's money out of greed and jealousy.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - D_Eclipse9916 - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 01:52 PM)G.Irish Wrote: Georgia requires you to register the car in state if it is primarily garaged there. Apparently the tax cops monitored theses guys at their houses, on instagram and via their toll cameras to get proof of where the cars were.
These guys were not just registering the cars in Montana, they were creating LLC's and registering the cars to those LLC's. On one hand that might be enough to win in court since technically the car is not registered to the person that lives in Georgia but to the company registered in Montana. But it appears like a lot of the offenders only set up the company to avoid the tax and not to pursue legitimate business which is what might push it into 'tax evasion' territory.
I think the people that at least made a show of running a business from their Montana LLC might have a chance of prevailing in court. Apparently a similar thing went down in Louisiana with an RV owner over this issue and the RV owner eventually won. The RV owner won on the point that the RV was registered to a Montana business.
Bam!
1. Specific State laws requiring you to register vehicle in state if it is primarily garaged there.
2. You set up an LCC that owns this vehicle, yet vehicle is primarily used for personal use in Georgia (and claiming it as business use will even get you in hotter water).
3. Felony to set up a business for the sole purpose of avoiding taxes on said asset.
If you are at least routing a business through it, would be pretty easy to avoid the claim of tax evasion. But what you are doing is setting up an LCC without intent of business. Illegal? Tough to 100% prove; but if the state/IRS wants to make an example out of you; I am sure they will figure it out or run you into oblivion with attorney cost.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - Kaan - 10-29-2018
I wonder where Trump registers his cars?
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - Apoc - 10-29-2018
Probably Florida, since that's where he spends the majority of his time.
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - D_Eclipse9916 - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 03:35 PM)Evan Wrote:(10-29-2018, 03:16 PM)G.Irish Wrote: You get taxed on just about everything you buy though. You don't get bent out of shape when you pay 10 cents tax on a candy bar because you can easily afford a candy bar. If you've got enough money to afford a Chiron (the Veyron is ugly), you have enough money to pay the tax. $200k is a lot of money but when you're worth 8 or 9 figures it's not that much money relative to your net worth.And if you sell your candy bar to your buddy, he doesn't pay tax on it. (Unless you buy it as a re-seller, which then you dont pay tax)
And if you keep your candy bar for a year, you dont pay more tax on it. (And if you did, the percentage of that tax would not go up if you had a godiva candy bar)
I would hope that a car enthusiast of all people would understand that "ordinary" people who love cars should be able to save their pennies and splurge on an expensive car without being labelled "rich" and overtaxed.
Every year in October I want to sell my Lotus due to the tax bill and its not even worth all that much.
warning: tangent ahead
And thats before we even get into the fact that 40% of the planet doesnt even have clean water to drink. Almost every single American is RICH in a human perspective. This "tax the rich" attitude is just a populist excuse to steal people's money out of greed and jealousy.
"Overtaxed". I have to pay taxes at the same % basis for my car as that guy with the $1M. Either get rid of all car tax or treat everyone the same (which this is). If we didn't pay PP taxes on cars, we would be paying it on our homes, or on our candy bars, or whatever. In 20 years with the proliferation of the younger generation not wanting cars as much; are we going to see PP taxes on phones? (easy to track with cell #) PP tax and NC's version of sales tax (Highway Use Tax), has a huge effect on what car I buy. I gripe about it all the time. I want a new truck, but it will cost me $2k in just highway use tax 3% (sales tax) before getting PP taxed. I understand people are upset about taxes, but the government is going to get "theirs" wether you want it or not. I am more for closing loopholes and lowering the overall tax % across the board not to incentivize this behavior.
I honestly don't mind people using the loophole; but it is in my view Tax Evasion to set up an LLC with the sole intent of avoiding taxes. Wether they get caught is not my problem
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - WRXtranceformed - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 03:50 PM)D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:(10-29-2018, 03:35 PM)Evan Wrote:(10-29-2018, 03:16 PM)G.Irish Wrote: You get taxed on just about everything you buy though. You don't get bent out of shape when you pay 10 cents tax on a candy bar because you can easily afford a candy bar. If you've got enough money to afford a Chiron (the Veyron is ugly), you have enough money to pay the tax. $200k is a lot of money but when you're worth 8 or 9 figures it's not that much money relative to your net worth.And if you sell your candy bar to your buddy, he doesn't pay tax on it. (Unless you buy it as a re-seller, which then you dont pay tax)
And if you keep your candy bar for a year, you dont pay more tax on it. (And if you did, the percentage of that tax would not go up if you had a godiva candy bar)
I would hope that a car enthusiast of all people would understand that "ordinary" people who love cars should be able to save their pennies and splurge on an expensive car without being labelled "rich" and overtaxed.
Every year in October I want to sell my Lotus due to the tax bill and its not even worth all that much.
warning: tangent ahead
And thats before we even get into the fact that 40% of the planet doesnt even have clean water to drink. Almost every single American is RICH in a human perspective. This "tax the rich" attitude is just a populist excuse to steal people's money out of greed and jealousy.
"Overtaxed". I have to pay taxes at the same % basis for my car as that guy with the $1M. Either get rid of all car tax or treat everyone the same (which this is). If we didn't pay PP taxes on cars, we would be paying it on our homes, or on our candy bars, or whatever. In 20 years with the proliferation of the younger generation not wanting cars as much; are we going to see PP taxes on phones? (easy to track with cell #) PP tax and NC's version of sales tax (Highway Use Tax), has a huge effect on what car I buy. I gripe about it all the time. I want a new truck, but it will cost me $2k in just highway use tax 3% (sales tax) before getting PP taxed. I understand people are upset about taxes, but the government is going to get "theirs" wether you want it or not. I am more for closing loopholes and lowering the overall tax % across the board not to incentivize this behavior.
I honestly don't mind people using the loophole; but it is in my view Tax Evasion to set up an LLC with the sole intent of avoiding taxes. Wether they get caught is not my problem
When I moved a few miles down the road to SC, there is a cap on sales tax for cars here of $400. So whether I buy a car in SC or NC or Montana or Florida, I pay at max a flat fee of $400 to the state of SC.
Our yearly property tax on cars is structured similarly to how NC was (based on a value of the vehicle, which can be contested) but the property tax on our home is drastically lower
RE: Rich Car Guy Problems: Montana License Plate Tax Dodge Crackdown - G.Irish - 10-29-2018
(10-29-2018, 03:35 PM)Evan Wrote:Yeah the tax every time vehicles trade hands thing is a pain but it's that way because car and house transactions have a lot of red tape association with them. I bet if the state could track and tax my sweets and baked goods purchases more accurately they probably would tax them more.(10-29-2018, 03:16 PM)G.Irish Wrote: You get taxed on just about everything you buy though. You don't get bent out of shape when you pay 10 cents tax on a candy bar because you can easily afford a candy bar. If you've got enough money to afford a Chiron (the Veyron is ugly), you have enough money to pay the tax. $200k is a lot of money but when you're worth 8 or 9 figures it's not that much money relative to your net worth.And if you sell your candy bar to your buddy, he doesn't pay tax on it. (Unless you buy it as a re-seller, which then you dont pay tax)
And if you keep your candy bar for a year, you dont pay more tax on it. (And if you did, the percentage of that tax would not go up if you had a godiva candy bar)
Car tax is pretty much the same rate no matter how expensive your candy bar is though. There are only a couple of exceptions I think. Some VA counties don't charge for antiques IIRC. So buy that F40 and you're golden.
Quote:I would hope that a car enthusiast of all people would understand that "ordinary" people who love cars should be able to save their pennies and splurge on an expensive car without being labelled "rich" and overtaxed.I don't begrudge anyone who wants to save their money and buy their dream car. But if you're making that purchase you should factor in the cost of the tax on that purchase. If you're out there clumsily setting up a shell company in another state to avoid that tax you should do so knowing the risk that you'll get caught and be forced to pay. And that you could potentially face jail time.
Every year in October I want to sell my Lotus due to the tax bill and its not even worth all that much.
I hate the annual car tax too but I just factor it into the cost of ownership. Same way I looked at mortgage payments before buying houses.
Quote:warning: tangent aheadIt's not a progressive tax though, it's a flat sales and usage tax. It's not a "tax the rich" situation, it's a pay-your-tax-like-everyone-else-without-using-a-sketchy-loophole situation. Had those guys used the hotrod E30 or the "kit car" loophole they'd be fine.[/quote]
And thats before we even get into the fact that 40% of the planet doesnt even have clean water to drink. Almost every single American is RICH in a human perspective. This "tax the rich" attitude is just a populist excuse to steal people's money out of greed and jealousy.