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- Dragon - 10-13-2004
*dons his referee hat*
In this corner we have Mike with his post about vacation days that currently doesn't have a source
In this corner we have Evan posting pics that can't be verified that they are in fact vacation days which is the basis for his counterpoint.
Therefore I call this match a draw of moot points.
- .RJ - 10-13-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:i'd check it if my mind wasn't already made up...
Yay for mikey rules!
- Evan - 10-13-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:why would i have a soruce for something i was cross posting?to avoid looking like a clueless dumbass because you believe something that some guy on teh intarrweb said
better luck next time.
- Mike - 10-13-2004
Evan Wrote:MichaelJComputer Wrote:why would i have a soruce for something i was cross posting?to avoid looking like a clueless dumbass because you believe something that some guy on teh intarrweb said
if you had proof that it was completely false, yes. saying that it is fake with a bunch of random pictures and no source makes you equally a clueless dumbass.
- JackoliciousLegs - 10-13-2004
Evan Wrote:blatant political moveyes... that's because the international community disapproves of bush...
Source was Washington Post. It's unclassified information.
According to an August 2003 article in the Washington Post, President Bush has spent all or part of 166 days during his presidency at his Crawford, Texas, ranch or en route. Add the time spent at or en route to the presidential retreat of Camp David and at the Bush family estate in Kennebunkport, Maine, and Bush has taken 250 days off as of August 2003. That's 27% of his presidency spent on vacation. Although to be fair, much of this time is classified as a "working vacation."
George Bush Sr. took all or part of 543 vacation days at Camp David and in Kennebunkport.
What about Clinton? As of December 1999, President Bill Clinton had spent only 152 days on holiday during his two terms, according to CBS News...
In barely three years in office, George W. Bush had already taken more vacation than Clinton did in seven years.
- Kaan - 10-13-2004
Hey mikey, Camp David is more like a second white house. Presidents have been using it for years. What makes you think its a 100% vacation house?
- Evan - 10-13-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:if you had proof that it was completely false, yes. saying that it is fake with a bunch of random pictures and no source makes you equally a clueless dumbass.wrong-o!
Pictures do not have the accountability paper trail that an article or fact of information does. Disregard them if you wish, but if you think that pictures with top cabinet in casual attire in a wood paneled room, and pictures with the Saudi Prime Minister in front of a stone brick building are in the white house, you arent very bright. The point of the pictures were to show that while working from home may not be very productive for a programmer, the president is a tad different from a programmer sitting at home in his pajamas looking at porn instead of working.
The pictures are a supporting argument, but not critical proof to my point.
The fact is, those figures where deliberately inflated by counting weekends and working time outside the white house.
- G.Irish - 10-13-2004
Really the vacation issue is really a minor and somewhat irrelevant point. There are plenty of other issues of substantially more importance that one could criticize Bush on. Furthermore, not checking on sources is intellectually lazy and usually just leads to arguments over nothing.
I know a lot of people don't like Bush (myself included) but bringing up all kinds of unrelated and sometimes unsubstantiaated stuff in every thread is like someone dissing a manufacturer every time they are mentioned without substance to back it up.
If you like/dislike Bush stick to the subject and share thoughts on the issue at hand rather than expanding the argument into a flame war. Better discussion is usually the result.
- Evan - 10-13-2004
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:yes... that's because the international community disapproves of bush...And since when did the international community determine the leader of this country? You liberals want to turn the whole country over to the UN.
Most of the world thinks Chirac is a slimebag, but thats up to the French.
Quote:. It's unclassified information.heh. now thats just funny.
Quote:According to an August 2003 article in the Washington Post, <snip>.
And not surprisingly, instead of being interested in the truth, you only quoted the portion of the article that suits your political mudthrowing goals.
Maybe you didnt read what I typed 3 times already, but those figures are not accurate, and have been deliberately inflated.
the whole article is quoted here. pay close attention to the bold parts.
CRAWFORD, Tex., Aug. 6 -- By the time President Bush returns to Washington on Labor Day after the longest presidential vacation in 32 years, he will have spent all or part of 54 days since the inauguration at his parched but beloved ranch. That's almost a quarter of his presidency.
Throw in four days last month at his parents' seaside estate in Kennebunkport, Maine, and 38 full or partial days at the presidential retreat at Camp David, and Bush will have spent 42 percent of his presidency at vacation spots or en route.
Many of those days are weekends, and the Camp David stays have included working visits with foreign leaders. . . .
even one of the most liberal papers in the country cant hide the truth.
- Jess - 10-13-2004
So while it seems that some on this board have obviously memorized everything from Farenheit 9/11 (*cough*mike*cough) and adopted the doc as personal mantra, I would recommend a counterpoint, FarenHype 9/11. It counters Moore's movie...if you're gonna go to one extreme might as well allow a rebuttal...
But please, don't base your vote on one documentary.
If you all have already seen Farenhype 9/11... Moo Moo (my bad, I f0cked up)
- JackoliciousLegs - 10-13-2004
Evan Wrote:And since when did the international community determine the leader of this country?Never, but when one leader has turned the world so harshly against us, you have to begin to wonder. I know we're responsible for our own country, but we are also a country of THE WORLD.
Evan Wrote:You liberalsJust because we are better adjusted to the times doesn't mean you have to refer to us in such a negative fashion.
Evan Wrote:Many of those days are weekends, and the Camp David stays have included working visits with foreign leaders. . . .Congratulations. I'm sure many of them were. Even with all of those vacation days.... er.... foreign relations days, we still have the worst international reputation we've had since Vietnam.
Do you think other countries are stupid? Is that why you discount their opinions? Or is it because you just plain don't care what other countries think. This isn't your fashion sense, this is our place in the world. This is whether we invade other countries or not. This is life or death for people. Yes it matters.
This country is unbelievably cocky. We think we are the world. You can't believe that Evan, it's not healthy. As I wrote in that huge post about the first debate, I can see why you'd vote republican, but it sure as hell isn't for GW Bush's international policy.
- Mike - 10-13-2004
Kaan Wrote:Hey mikey, Camp David is more like a second white house. Presidents have been using it for years. What makes you think its a 100% vacation house?
hey kaany, i went ahead and killed 2/3 of those "vacation" days... i still think 40+ is ridiculous.
- .RJ - 10-13-2004
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Just because we are better adjusted to the times doesn't mean you have to refer to us in such a negative fashion.
What makes your liberal viewpoint "better adjusted to the times"?
- Mike - 10-13-2004
Evan Wrote:The fact is, those figures where deliberately inflated by counting weekends and working time outside the white house.
i nixxed two thirds of them to "inflation" and it is still goofy.
- Mike - 10-13-2004
jes S preston, esq Wrote:It counters Moore's movie...if you're gonna go to one extreme might as well allow a rebuttal...
absolutely, where can i find it?
fahrenheit 9/11 has nothing to do with how i'm voting... hell, i only just saw it about a week ago and my mind was made up 3.5 years ago
fwiw, i don't like kerry either. i will be "wasting" my vote on a party that has no chance of winning.
- Kaan - 10-13-2004
i vote republican for reasons other then GW, Iraq, and all the other BS that is getting flung around in the current era. there are fundimental reasons why i will not vote for kerry. i'm going to go hug a tree...
- Evan - 10-13-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:absolutely, where can i find it?
There is an excellent bi-partisan documentary called "Confronting Iraq"
produced by Accuracy In Media
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.confrontingiraq.net/">http://www.confrontingiraq.net/</a><!-- m -->
it costs $30, and Id be willing to split it with someone if interested
fahrenhype can be ordered here
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=STATICPAGE&PAGE_ID=2196&CID=55589&FP=F">http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi ... 55589&FP=F</a><!-- m -->
also, to follow up on a previous point, here are some articles about GWs working environment outside of the white house
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/08/06/bush.crawford/">http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITIC ... .crawford/</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81769,00.html">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81769,00.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.infoplease.com/spot/campdavid1.html">http://www.infoplease.com/spot/campdavid1.html</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/whmo/camp-david.html">http://www.whitehouse.gov/whmo/camp-david.html</a><!-- m -->
- Feersty - 10-13-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:fwiw, i don't like kerry either.
I also want to get out of Iraq, but it is going to take some time, people. Change of government takes a lot of work and sacrifice. And about us being over there, talk to the soldiers that have actually been there, then you might have an idea what it is like. We are so blessed in the U.S. that there is no way we could fathom the hardship that the Iraqi citizens went through or are going through this very second. And if you talk to those people(Iraqi citizens) they want us over there. Period.
- Mike - 10-13-2004
Feersty Wrote:talk to the soldiers that have actually been there, then you might have an idea what it is like.
it being iraq or the war? i regularly correspond with two high school friends that both went to afghanistan and are now in iraq... my cousin is about to be shipped out as well.
they all agree the place is a shithole, but we are overstepping our bounds being there.
- Maengelito - 10-13-2004
MichaelJComputer Wrote:Feersty Wrote:talk to the soldiers that have actually been there, then you might have an idea what it is like.
it being iraq or the war? i regularly correspond with two high school friends that both went to afghanistan and are now in iraq... my cousin is about to be shipped out as well.
they all agree the place is a shithole, but we are overstepping our bounds being there.
thats not what i hear. i work directly with lots of soldiers and they say more people are glad to see soldiers and are glad to not be under saddam's rule anymore. there are some that are scared or dont like them, but ya know, i dont really like mike all that much either.