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+--- Thread: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) (/showthread.php?tid=11293)
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - JPolen01 - 07-26-2017
Apoc Wrote:Except, no. He voted for the motion to continue the debate, not the actual bill. His statement that he wouldn't vote for it in it's current form is still valid.Na dawg. You are wrong
Quote:Among the senators who voted for BCRA was Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who spent part of his day delivering an impassioned floor speech decrying the process and the legislation that he voted for later in the evening. Johnson, who withheld his vote earlier Tuesday during the motion to proceed until he had a 10-minute conversation on the floor with McConnell, also ended up voting for the BCRA, as did Capito, who has made her qualms about Medicaid cuts well-known, saying last week that she didn’t “come to Washington to hurt people.”<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/senate-republicans-bcra-vote_us_5977f7dfe4b0a8a40e83a2d4">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sen ... a40e83a2d4</a><!-- m -->
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Apoc - 07-26-2017
HuffPo :lol:
Tuesday afternoon McCain walked out on the Senate floor and cast his vote to begin debate on repealing the Affordable Care Act
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/mccain-didnt-back-health-bill-but-his-vote-was-still-weird.html">http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... weird.html</a><!-- m -->
...and here are his own words:
I voted for the motion to proceed to allow debate to continue and amendments to be offered. I will not vote for the bill as it is today. It’s a shell of a bill right now. We all know that. I have changes urged by my state’s governor that will have to be included to earn my support for final passage of any bill. I know many of you will have to see the bill changed substantially for you to support it.
More:
A handful of experts on the Senate’s arcane procedures offered up a possible defense: technically, Tuesday night’s vote wasn’t to pass BCRA, it was a procedural vote on whether a version of BCRA with amendments from Ted Cruz and Rob Portman satisfies budget rules, and could therefore be passed at a later date with only 50 votes.
It's literally a motion to keep working on it. Nothing in the actual bill has become law.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - JPolen01 - 07-26-2017
Maybe it is the general confusion of the reconciliation system. What you posted makes sense, but that is not how many news sources have described it. NPR this morning described last night's vote on the BCRA as a vote to outright repeal the ACA. This is the same way HuffPo (admittedly not a great source but it expressed what I thought was correct) described it. Thanks for clearing it up.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Ken - 07-26-2017
Apoc Wrote:HuffPo :lol:
Tuesday afternoon McCain walked out on the Senate floor and cast his vote to begin debate on repealing the Affordable Care Act
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/mccain-didnt-back-health-bill-but-his-vote-was-still-weird.html">http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... weird.html</a><!-- m -->
...and here are his own words:
I voted for the motion to proceed to allow debate to continue and amendments to be offered. I will not vote for the bill as it is today. It’s a shell of a bill right now. We all know that. I have changes urged by my state’s governor that will have to be included to earn my support for final passage of any bill. I know many of you will have to see the bill changed substantially for you to support it.
More:
A handful of experts on the Senate’s arcane procedures offered up a possible defense: technically, Tuesday night’s vote wasn’t to pass BCRA, it was a procedural vote on whether a version of BCRA with amendments from Ted Cruz and Rob Portman satisfies budget rules, and could therefore be passed at a later date with only 50 votes.
It's literally a motion to keep working on it. Nothing in the actual bill has become law.
JESUS DUDE. The link you, yourself, posted has the following:
"But the reality is that everyone understood Tuesday night’s procedural vote was actually about BCRA"
"McCain’s vote on Tuesday helped enable the broken process on health care that he came to the floor to decry. It allows McConnell to continue to circumvent the committee work and bipartisan negotiations McCain said represent the best of the Senate. A no vote would have forced leaders back to the drawing board, possibly into a bipartisan negotiation, but now, they will barrel ahead, possibly for weeks or months, on the Republican-only effort."
Sorry, it's bullshit. Don't buy crappy excuses for hypocrisy.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - JPolen01 - 07-26-2017
Even SENATORS don't understand wtf McCain was doing by his speech and subsequent vote. No wonder the general public and media had a hard time figuring it out.
From the source above:
Quote:On MSNBC, Senator Al Franken suggested that McCain’s fellow senators were equally confused by his vote. “Technically, it was a procedural vote to then go to the issue, and I suppose it’s conceivable John McCain would have voted against the actual bill once you got to that vote,” said host Lawrence O’Donnell. “But he certainly is confusing people.”
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Mike - 07-26-2017
*insertusernamehere* Wrote:He can continue life away from politics.
You've still not answered this. If he's still capable of performing the job, why shouldn't he? The whole "put him down" tone shows you haven't lived much. It'll be a sobering moment when you have to.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Apoc - 07-26-2017
HuffPo, MSNBC, Al Franken...
I fucking hate the Repubs decrying media bias, but all these interpretations are pretty biased. I think the BCRA is a crime against the American people, but I'm not voting on whether a bill satisfies budget rules based on whether or not I like the content. Maybe I'm just a purist with an abnormally high sense of procedure, but his vote doesn't bother me.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - *insertusernamehere* - 07-26-2017
Mike Wrote:Based on his confusion a with Comeys hearing I don't see how he's capable. I don't recall saying he needs to be put down. I'm saying he needs to find something else to do, something where his choices don't have so much influence.*insertusernamehere* Wrote:He can continue life away from politics.
You've still not answered this. If he's still capable of performing the job, why shouldn't he? The whole "put him down" tone shows you haven't lived much. It'll be a sobering moment when you have to.
I've been saying his for a hot minute before there was even news of his cancer so if you think it's because he has cancer and I'm just being insensitive it's not.
Sent from my FRD-L04 using Tapatalk
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Mike - 07-26-2017
"Put him down", "put him away", tomato, tomahto.
There are processes for all of this. I'm with Chris - we continue to follow them.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - CaptainHenreh - 07-28-2017
Can we stop shitting on the POW with Brain Cancer now?
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Ken - 07-28-2017
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Can we stop shitting on the POW with Brain Cancer now?
No.
Also, what the fuck does him being a POW and having brain cancer have anything to do with criticizing from for shitty actions he takes? He's immune from criticism because of that? Fuck outta here with that noise. I can respect him for his service, which was tremendous and he does have cajones larger than I could ever aspire to have, as well as wish him a speedy recovery while still holding him accountable for his decisions. These are not mutually exclusive. Stop making it that way.
As to this vote - big fucking deal. I'm supposed to be impressed that he voted no on a bill THAT EVERYONE FUCKING KNEW WOULD NEVER BECOME LAW? Fuck off with that shit. They all should have voted no. It was shit legislation and they all knew it. The only reason any voted yes was solely because they were counting on the House NOT PASSING IT. Jesus. This goes back to our political system is fucked, how fucking stupid is that.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - CaptainHenreh - 07-28-2017
Ken Wrote:As to this vote - big fucking deal. I'm supposed to be impressed that he voted no on a bill THAT EVERYONE FUCKING KNEW WOULD NEVER BECOME LAW? Fuck off with that shit. They all should have voted no. It was shit legislation and they all knew it. The only reason any voted yes was solely because they were counting on the House NOT PASSING IT. Jesus. This goes back to our political system is fucked, how fucking stupid is that.
I'm saying you criticized him for saying he'd vote no, then voting to permit debate...SO THAT HE COULD VOTE NO. The ACA does need reform, there's a bunch of garbage in there that sucks out loud, and on the whole it has just raised the already astronomical cost of health care even higher. The GOP "solution" to roll everything back wasn't gonna solve that, McCain knew it...of all of these flavors, why you choose salt, bro?
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - JPolen01 - 07-28-2017
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Can we stop shitting on the POW with Brain Cancer now?No. He should have voted no originally and not even let it move forward. I'm with Ken. Being a POW or having cancer has nothing to do with him being a shitty human being. I can separate those qualifications from his legislative career :dunno:
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Ryan T - 07-28-2017
Good thing he doesn't give two shits about what you all think, what with him only having to answer to the great people of the state of Arizona and all.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Ken - 07-28-2017
CaptainHenreh Wrote:Ken Wrote:As to this vote - big fucking deal. I'm supposed to be impressed that he voted no on a bill THAT EVERYONE FUCKING KNEW WOULD NEVER BECOME LAW? Fuck off with that shit. They all should have voted no. It was shit legislation and they all knew it. The only reason any voted yes was solely because they were counting on the House NOT PASSING IT. Jesus. This goes back to our political system is fucked, how fucking stupid is that.
I'm saying you criticized him for saying he'd vote no, then voting to permit debate...SO THAT HE COULD VOTE NO. The ACA does need reform, there's a bunch of garbage in there that sucks out loud, and on the whole it has just raised the already astronomical cost of health care even higher. The GOP "solution" to roll everything back wasn't gonna solve that, McCain knew it...of all of these flavors, why you choose salt, bro?
First of all, this is a different bill. My point was, all of them should have voted no, because it was fucking stupid as hell.So no, i don't grant him any credit for this.
Secondly, all of this could be done without this by, you know, committee, and hearings. He could have voted no before and that still could have occurred.
I do not disagree that ACA is not perfect. I don't think any reasonable or sane person (democrat and liberals included) would say otherwise. It was, however, a step in the right direction. So, let's fix it. Not try and tear it down for the sake of political points and replace it with... oh right, nothing, because you have nothing. So let's put on our big boys pants, sit down with people we don't like, find some common ground and knock this thing out.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - WRXtranceformed - 07-28-2017
CaptainHenreh Wrote:The ACA does need reform, there's a bunch of garbage in there that sucks out loud, and on the whole it has just raised the already astronomical cost of health care even higher.This is truth
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Apoc - 07-28-2017
Ken Wrote:Also, what the fuck does him being a POW and having brain cancer have anything to do with criticizing from for shitty actions he takes?
Pretty sure you were the one who brought it up.
Ken Wrote:fresh off his tax payer funded healthcare surgery, gets off his hospital bed and
Oh wait, yeah, you did. You don't get to use it to prove your point and then say it doesn't matter.
I like how you guys cried he didn't vote no because you misunderstood the process and now are moving the goalposts when he votes no.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading">https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/special-pleading</a><!-- m -->
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - CaptainHenreh - 07-28-2017
Ken Wrote:CaptainHenreh Wrote:Ken Wrote:As to this vote - big fucking deal. I'm supposed to be impressed that he voted no on a bill THAT EVERYONE FUCKING KNEW WOULD NEVER BECOME LAW? Fuck off with that shit. They all should have voted no. It was shit legislation and they all knew it. The only reason any voted yes was solely because they were counting on the House NOT PASSING IT. Jesus. This goes back to our political system is fucked, how fucking stupid is that.
I'm saying you criticized him for saying he'd vote no, then voting to permit debate...SO THAT HE COULD VOTE NO. The ACA does need reform, there's a bunch of garbage in there that sucks out loud, and on the whole it has just raised the already astronomical cost of health care even higher. The GOP "solution" to roll everything back wasn't gonna solve that, McCain knew it...of all of these flavors, why you choose salt, bro?
First of all, this is a different bill. My point was, all of them should have voted no, because it was fucking stupid as hell.So no, i don't grant him any credit for this.
What? Look man. McCain said he'd vote against the BRCA when it came up to "Yay" or "nay" as it was written. He did literally that. You're salty because he should have killed it on some other procedural bullshit INSTEAD of voting down the bill as a "No, try again, no bullshit next time"? Killing a bill on a procedural tick is exactly the kind of bullshit you APPEAR to be railing against, but you totally are in favor of when it suits you. Just admit you got bamboozled by GQ and HuffPo and Al Franken and
![[Image: 200.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/krhW9yWEI0x0Y/200.gif)
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Ken - 07-28-2017
We already went over this and agreed to disagree. It was commonly understood that the, "procedural bullshit," was a referendum on BCRA. I believe he should have cut through that bullshit and voted no as he had indicated before, you feel as though he was just following through to the letter of procedure which was that it was, "does it meet X budget requirements." We disagree. That's fine.
Also, this wasn't the BCRA. So, technically speaking, he still hasn't voted no on it. This was the Health Care Freedom Act. Not sure if you just didn't know that or are willingly missing that to make some grand point about McCain here.
Lastly, yes. I do believe i am staying in line with my logic. I believe you should stick to your convictions regardless of appearances or bullshit political procedure.
Re: Electile Dysfunction (Current students plz look!) - Ken - 07-28-2017
Not to mention, by the way, he actually was ready to vote yes on this thing if it wasn't that he just didn't like Paul Ryan's use of the word, "willing." So it's not like he voted no purely based on the fact that he didn't like the bill, he was just as ready to move forward with this bullshit of a process.
“Senators have made clear that this is an effort to keep the process alive, not to make law,” Ryan said in a statement. “If moving forward requires a conference committee, that is something the House is willing to do.”
However, McCain indicated that Ryan's statement didn't go far enough to explicitly rule out the House voting on the "skinny" repeal bill at some point.
"I would like to have the kind of assurances he did not provide," McCain said.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/344244-ryan-assures-gop-senators-house-will-go-to-conference