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+--- Thread: Project RS (/showthread.php?tid=6314)
- Goodspeed - 03-01-2009
That was a fun watch..."Getaway in Atlanta". How often did you check the rearview to see if there was a camera bouncing away in the horizon?
- ScottyB - 03-01-2009
Goodspeed Wrote:How often did you check the rearview to see if there was a camera bouncing away in the horizon?
haha....ALOT. i probably won't be doing that again any time soon.
- ScottyB - 04-16-2009
so i've started to delve into the foray of opensource tuning. i initially became interested about a year ago when the car started to become supported but i held off for a long time since the subject, frankly, intimidated the hell out of me. i've done alot of reading and i'll be moving very slowly.
the goals of tuning the car, in order of importance, are:
- remove the closed loop to open loop delay
- remap throttle to offer easier tip-in and more linearity (poking around in traffic at <1500 rpm in 1st is pogo/drivelash city because the throttle is real touchy at low rpms....very annoying)
- richen up the stock open loop map
- rescale MAF for closed loop operation
- rescale MAF for open loop operation*
- tune for safety on 87*
- tune for power on 93*
* can't do until i have a wideband
i most likely won't make it past the 3rd stage but i'd really like to see an 87 tune. people who have tuned the cars well on 87 are picking up over 10awhp so there is a whole lot of room for improvement....on 93 these cars could probably put down twice that increase. so far its been great to study this stuff as it opens up a lot of understanding about how the engine works, which is really cool to me.
Flintster sent me a cable to connect from laptop to car and i have the necessary tuning programs. unfortunately i found out my particular ECU is not supported yet - i thought it was as they had quite a few definitions for the N/A cars. so...i'll be waiting for the next group of definitions to be released.
in the meantime, i found a way to seal my WRX intake duct up to the rest of my intake (it used to just funnel air into the general area of the stock intake since the duct is bigger than the stock intake):
the seal came from here:
![[Image: 1007.jpg]](http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/1007.jpg)
the groove accomdates the duct and supports it while being thick enough to bridge the gap between the duct and the stock intake
![[Image: 1001.jpg]](http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/1001.jpg)
![[Image: 1006.jpg]](http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/1006.jpg)
![[Image: 1008.jpg]](http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/1008.jpg)
i happened to have some leftover from a side project so some measuring + hot glue = lower IAT's...and since putting my headers on the underhood temps have definitely felt higher when the car isn't moving as much (like staging at an autocross). so hopefully this will help in all areas - to my knowledge nobody who has the duct has sealed it, but some have still logged 10-20 degree decrease in IAT's over stock when the car is moving.
- WRXtranceformed - 04-16-2009
I would almost just consider letting someone do a professional tune on it, even though it's going to cost a lot more. The last thing you want is to blow up another engine on your daily driver bro.
- ScottyB - 04-16-2009
WRXtranceformed Wrote:I would almost just consider letting someone do a professional tune on it, even though it's going to cost a lot more. The last thing you want is to blow up another engine on your daily driver bro.
if i tune it past the basic stuff (first three) i really doubt i'd do it myself especially with great tuners like Topspeed and Batlground right up the road.
right now its just about getting the car running to a level of safety i'd like to see...the first three things should do it. the stock tune runs stoic almost constantly and when it finally goes into open loop it doesn't go rich until the last 1500 rpm...at which point it goes to almost 10:1. thats just crazy.
- WRXtranceformed - 04-16-2009
You know what would make it run leaner? Turbah!!! :twisted:
- D_Eclipse9916 - 04-16-2009
Why do you want to richen up open loop? If its not knocking or predetonating now why? Make sure your not confusing turbo tuning with NA. You can get realllllllllyyyyy lean on low compression, NA motors and typically thats where your gonna make power on na (12.5 to 13:1 or even higher).
Maybe im just not understanding it right. Maybe your worried about high load, low rpm? But arent you autocrossing/driving around town where your at low load, low rpm or low load high rpm driving? Sorry I was just confused at what your trying to accomplish.
- ScottyB - 04-16-2009
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Why do you want to richen up open loop? If its not knocking or predetonating now why? Make sure your not confusing turbo tuning with NA. You can get realllllllllyyyyy lean on low compression, NA motors and typically thats where your gonna make power on na (12.5 to 13:1 or even higher).
Maybe im just not understanding it right. Maybe your worried about high load, low rpm? But arent you autocrossing/driving around town where your at low load, low rpm or low load high rpm driving? Sorry I was just confused at what your trying to accomplish.
the stock OL map runs very lean. subaru did this because (A) they were trying to be competitive with fuel milage and (B) for less emissions. to compound the problem, they put a CL to OL delay on the changeover that forces the car to hold onto CL for a long period of time even if you jump on it. you may have read about 04/05 WRX's having this issue and a few people popping engines because of it. the brand new STi's are doing it as well and tuners are making a killing fixing subaru's shortcomings on it.
the car pings/knocks under any high load even on 93, at any RPM under about 4500 - it gets pretty bad around 3800-4000 rpm, right before the switchover. i've done what i can to reduce it, but its pretty much a universal issue with 05+ N/A subarus. even in OL, the fuel map is set to stoic. at 4500 or so, the OL map plummets the fueling to nearly 10:1 - possibly lower, as that is around the limit of the stock narrow band sensor's reading ability. i had a nice AFR map from another 05 N/A suby on page 9 but the link is dead. you can read your own response from when you saw it. i'm sure average Joe doesn't care that the car is doing that, but i do.
for now i'm concerned about the pinging. i want to richen up the OL map a bit and leave it at that. once i have the time/money i'll look into leaning the pig rich parts of the map back out for more power.
- D_Eclipse9916 - 04-16-2009
wow way to go subaru. Definitely seems like a reliability issue you would want to identify and fix.
- ScottyB - 04-16-2009
here you go, this is a better comparison. this is viewed in romraider, an opensource editing program. we are looking at the Open Loop fueling for 2 different N/A subarus. on the left is a decent tune for 87 (not mine, someone else's tune). on the right is the stock tune.
Y axis = RPM, X axis = load in g/sec. red is stoich. purple is 11:1
![[Image: map.jpg]](http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/map.jpg)
as you can see, even in OL, it is 14.7 even at max load in the lower to mid rpm ranges. my thoughts were to NOT remove any fuel, but simply to add some at the high load levels (above about 1g/sec) and log the knock tables to see how much it reduces in the corresponding rpm/load points. thoughts?
- flintster55 - 04-17-2009
Yea the dreaded CL to OL delay. I was fortunate that the 02/03 WRX aren't really affected by this but like you said I've heard some horror stories about 04/05 models.
Sounds like you have the right idea about adding fuel. I would just make pretty small changes and log after each to make sure you're making improvements.
Another thought though, can you just copy the data from the good tune's tables over to your Rom and reflash yours with the same data since you say thats a good tune? The table actually looks pretty good to me. It still has 14.7 in the low load ranges up until ~3600 which should keep up your fuel economy on the highway. I do know my map for the WRX (which i'm not sure how can apply) goes very rich up in the higher RPMS as well just because apparently rich is safer to an extent.
Looks like you're doing well though, the world of opensource is a bit intimidating at first but it doesn't take too long to start to get the hang of it.
- ScottyB - 04-17-2009
flintster55 Wrote:can you just copy the data from the good tune's tables over to your Rom and reflash yours with the same data since you say thats a good tune?
that's a definite thought. i may look into it a tweak it a bit depending on what my logging is showing.
- D_Eclipse9916 - 04-17-2009
Yeah the revised one isnt bad, holy god, full load (remember that the number is just extropolated and not an actual "real" measurement) on the stock one is insane. Sounds like your having fun though messing around, just take it one step at a time.
- ScottyB - 04-17-2009
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:Yeah the revised one isnt bad, holy god, full load (remember that the number is just extropolated and not an actual "real" measurement) on the stock one is insane. Sounds like your having fun though messing around, just take it one step at a time.
yeah its piss poor isn't it? well, i sure get good mpg's....
i also understand its extrapolated, just throwing out numbers for the sake of comparison. this will definitely be a drawn out process....i'll be doing a lot more logging than tuning, that's for sure. its is fun though!
- ScottyB - 05-10-2009
got my Motive power bleeder in this week so i got some fresh brake fluid in today.
![[Image: 16.jpg]](https://www.928gt.com/images/product/medium/16.jpg)
yeah, i know there's cheaper ways of doing it but i was looking for the absolute easiest, idiot proof method and this worked great. i've never bled my brakes before and i definitely recommend it for anyone who doesn't have help around all the time to do the 2 person bleed method. old fluid was replaced with ATE Superblue...i love how easy it is to see the new fluid coming through the bleeder line (and its well priced).
for the subaru guys interested, you want the 3 prong motive adapter. it fit great.
also got it blinged out with a good wash and wax for the summer. product list was:
ÔÇó wash with Optimum No-Rinse and Cobra waffle weave microfiber towels
ÔÇó claybarred with Clay Magic and lubed with diluted ONR
ÔÇó hit the wheels with P21S wheel cleaner
ÔÇó door jambs, trunk gutter, wheel wells and engine bay with P21S Total Auto Wash
ÔÇó black trim dressed with Mother's Back to Black
ÔÇó tires dressed with Armor All Extreme Tire Shine
ÔÇó overall wax coat with P21S carnuba
since i live in an apartment and we have a water ban here in GA (can't wash you car with a hose, anywhere, ever....you pretty much have to go to a hand wash type car wash business since they use recycled water) and because the local coin ops are all shut down (used to sneak in with my own wash and use the rinse wand) and i can't live without my bling, i decided to use my own water source. i picked up a 1 gallon pesticide sprayer from Lowe's:
![[Image: SureSpray_1Gal.jpg]](http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/images/SureSpray_1Gal.jpg)
i sprayed the ONR on the car with this and then wiped it down. after using up the ONR inside it, i filled it with water and used it to wash out the door jambs, gutters, wheels, and engine bay. its great for those purposes since the spray is easy to control so you don't soak the interior of your car while you do your door jambs, for instance. aside from that my only other equipment was a 5 gallon bucket full of rinse water for the microfibers after i wipe off the ONR with them.
so, if you are facing a similar dillema, this system works really well for me. i probably use less water doing this method than most people use to take a quick shower.
P21S total auto wash is awesome BTW. love that stuff...takes off anything and is no threat to the paint finish. the wax was also fantastic, goes on like butter and won't stain black trim. the wheel cleaner was OK...but it was part of a gift so i'm going to use it up.
pics later in the "washed and waxed" thread, they're on a seperate camera
- WRXtranceformed - 05-10-2009
Nice man!! That blows you guys are still on water restrictions. It's been raining so much here over the past 6 months that no hippy tree hugger faggots could do a damn bit of good trying to convince local lawmakers that there's still a drought going on. They finally lifted all of the water restrctions here like 3 months ago because it's been pouring quite frequently here.
- ScottyB - 05-11-2009
WRXtranceformed Wrote:Nice man!! That blows you guys are still on water restrictions.
tell me about it....makes me so pissed off. we're getting t-storms almost every single day for weeks now and we still have that ban. all because we have to leave our main resiviour flowing wide-open so we don't dry up freshwater clam habitats 400 miles downstream in florida.
- WRXtranceformed - 05-11-2009
Whoa crazy! Yeah to be fair your water supplies got hit way harder than ours did, but I'd imagine you have been getting the same amount of rain down there that we have. Oh well post up some pics of the fresh detail! And let me know if you ever want to try Amsoil's brake fluid, I'll send it down to you at my cost!
- ScottyB - 05-11-2009
WRXtranceformed Wrote:And let me know if you ever want to try Amsoil's brake fluid, I'll send it down to you at my cost!
got it...i went with ATE this time because i was already buying from amazon and it was an afterthought :lol:
- flintster55 - 05-11-2009
Man I really want to try ONR. I've seriously heard nothing but good things about it. I might have to man up and finally order some soon.
And hows the tuning going?