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+--- Thread: Really? Another Miata thread.... (/showthread.php?tid=11329)
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - Jewels - 08-03-2018
Greg's a douche. He's always been a douche. Nobody likes the dude, but.... he's still here, being a douche.
Really? Another Miata thread.... - JustinG - 08-04-2018
Scott, you been back since Xavier took over SM?
He's sending cars to Dyno, and we are doing checks in tech Sat and Sun when warranted.
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - Scott - 08-05-2018
(08-04-2018, 12:45 PM)JustinG Wrote: Scott, you been back since Xavier took over SM?
He's sending cars to Dyno, and we are doing checks in tech Sat and Sun when warranted.
Xavier is the one who ended the conversation about working towards unifying the rule set to draw cars.
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - Jake - 08-06-2018
Greg's been nice to me the couple of times we've chatted, but I also have the car that he apparently favors. So...
I'm not super fond of dyno compliance within Mid-Atlantic, given our only option seems to be Methhead Dyno Inc, with his super accurate equipment.
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - rherold9 - 08-15-2018
He does favor the BMW crowd. It's obvious by the A-arm penalty and the fact he owns one too doesn't help the assumptions. I'm not the only one who agrees with this too. Multiple TT guys have agreed, ie. Matt Huffman, Edgar, I mean even DJ who loves BMWs, etc.
Maybe if there weren't multiple classes BMWs could run there would be more in ST. Penalizing cars to try to make other cars more prevalent and prove they are just as fast is back-asswards. It's like saying well a Porsche has a flat plane crank and has been winning a ton. There really hasn't been many vipers out there racing but tons and tons of Porsche's. A viper doesn't have that flat plane crank. Therefore the Porsche has a more sophisticated engine design. We must penalize the Porsche as they are much faster than the Viper based off current data. When in reality there are just no ST/TT5 BMWs running just a lot of a-arm cars (S2k, Miata, FRS/BRZ, etc.). They are running other classes like GTS or higher ST classes. It would be like penalizing the new ND in STR auto-x and making the NC not the dinosaur. I'm hoping we see some well built TT/ST5 BMWs with good drivers at Nats to change this mindset because seriously an a-arm suspension design does not make more double the difference in lap times than fucking full aero or remote/large diameter shocks, etc.
Anyway, on to the Miata. I got it back from Flim Flam today after a much needed week vacation in New England area.
Negative:
Car got dropped off at Delta V for alignment and the battery somehow died there. Never had a problem before and has sat 3+ weeks without being charged. They for sure left ACC on or something. Kevin got it back. Charged it for an hour to start it and move it but died again the next day due to not being charged long enough. Cool so the battery has been damaged twice now from being drained lol. He left it on the charger overnight and all is well. Still a little frustrating as that for sure will hurt the battery life on the car. I guess I'll be moving on to a small lithium battery with super cool kit sooner than later.
Car only makes 154whp peak. A lot of people/shops like Goodwin advertise with STD correction vs SAE of the NASA dyno which are inflated 4% or so. This would put the car on par with their numbers if it was in STD. Car has a nice smooth power curve though. Remote tuner knows what he is doing. Kevin commented on the graph saying it looked good, "More power everywhere along the curve than my stock miata". His car made 143whp stock. His is a NC1 which was advertised 170hp. Mine is NC2 which was advertised 167hp.
![[Image: dFnLQYw.png]](https://i.imgur.com/dFnLQYw.png)
That will probably be close to 148-150whp average. I need another 20+ average whp or 175ish whp peak for enough power in 5 unless I start going gram strategy on weight instead....
1. I need to call Moto-East/Dynotronics and see what they say is a good route to take and most cost affective. They know NC Miata's. My assumptions are
a) Keep 2.0, add 1.8 header, ECUTek dyno tune (~3-6whp I'd estimate for those two) and port intake side runners, add ITB style manifold like a stock S2K or other Honda's...
![[Image: intake-plenum.jpg]](http://www.moto-east.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/n/intake-plenum.jpg)
Add in a larger throttle body from Gram's and maybe a small cam grind/stiffer springs if needed from Moto-East. That should get me there I'd hope.
Benefits: Keep the higher revving nature of the engine
Cons: Probably more money overall, not as much torque as a 2.5 swap
b) 2.5 swap, 1.8 header, and ECUTek dyno tune should get me close. If not at needed power level add the manifold from Moto-East and de-tune if needed. Change to euro 3.73 FD from the 4.1 FD as the 2.5 doesn't rev as high.
Benefits: A lot more torque, flatter power curve overall, a little cheaper
Cons: Not as rev happy, more time consuming
Who knows what those two shops will say but based on current power levels, those are just some guesses. Fun stuff to try to be competitive in TT/ST5. For now I'll just stay in TTD this season completely uncompetitive at 8 points under class max and +3.5 weight to hp over class minimum. 17.7 of my car vs 14.25
Positive:
Car was dialed into the alignment specs requested and bushings were successfully installed.
Front:
-3.2, -3.26
-1/32" toe total
Like 6 degrees of positive caster lol
Passenger:
-2.2, -2.2
+1/32" toe total
Still have more camber that can be added at current height. They couldn't get the passenger side front back to less camber of -3.2 on the dot.
Initial impressions after one downhill on ramp - noticeable difference even not anywhere near full speed/limit. Car pushes on the outside front nice. It feels weird. Turn a little more and add power and the car rotates nicely. Can't wait to see the difference on track. Hoping for some good oversteer and slip. Damn I missed driving this car for a few weeks. I was so happy on the way to work!
Decided to pick up some Simpson racing shoes, AIM SOLO 2 DL, and new subscription based lap timer from OG Racing with instructor discount. Need to install the lap timer before VIR some time. The wiring length given is gonna be hard to follow the instructions of mounting the race key inside the vehicle so it will probably be mounted somewhere inside the engine bay like the transponder.
I would like to also pull the soft top before VIR to lose some weight... I have an abundance of OEM Miata parts I need to sell along with selling my regular AIM, and some parts from my previous Mazda3. Need to get my ass in gear!!!
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - Scott - 08-16-2018
So when is the cage going in?
Really? Another Miata thread.... - rherold9 - 08-16-2018
When the car is fully prepared
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RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - ScottyB - 08-16-2018
unless you're running some tracks where you really need to dig out of corners, i'd skip the inevitable shitshow of swapping blocks (unless you can find a guy who runs out of steam mid-project and you can grab a fairly complete engine) and just keep improving the 2.0. you've got a great torque curve as it sits and its been reliable for you.
what is typical driveline loss for these? i think your engine looks strong particularly given the dog-day temperatures out there and at the core of things its a very lightly breathed on engine with simple bolt ons. you haven't even touched cams/injectors/throttle body/port work yet.
have you pulled the A/C system yet? i don't know the ins and outs of TT allowances but i'm sure there's weight to be dropped there.
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - rherold9 - 08-16-2018
Won't be a shit show. The 2.5 is a well known drop in and go swap. The 2.5 is a parent motor from the Mazda3, Mazda6, and Ford Fusion. I'd be dropping it off at a well known shop that has done the swap many times before so I have no worries about it.
I don't think this engine isn't strong and these engines are known to run forever with abuse. The current 3rd gear log based remote tune is wonderful. Wish the guy was local for dyno tune. He knows his stuff. I could probably eek out another ~5whp peak with ECUTek dyno tune, 1.8 header, catless mid pipe, and race muffler. The problem is it just won't make enough power without these major mods:
a) porting intake side
b) buying intake manifold
c) buying cams
and probably should just d) port exhaust side to not have to take the short block off again if it doesn't make enough power
d) ECUTek dyno tune, 1.8 header, catless mid pipe, race single
That will end up probably be just as costly as a swap and make things more complex. This is after talking to the company that sells both the intake manifold and cams. He said easiest way would be 2.5 swap and their mild street cam.
So, I could technically stay with the 2.0 but it would be extensively modded vs a relatively stock 2.5 which I think would be more reliable? :dunno:
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - ScottyB - 08-16-2018
sure if you're keeping the 2.5 pretty stock, that's a better bet than dealing with all the work and tuning on the 2.0 to make more power. sounds like you know good people and have this well researched. bigger displacement i assume means less revs which is always better for reliability and heat anyway.
a 2.5 is a nice sized 4 cylinder...in a car of your weight i bet it would scoot hard.
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - rherold9 - 08-16-2018
(08-16-2018, 04:06 PM)ScottyB Wrote: sure if you're keeping the 2.5 pretty stock, that's a better bet than dealing with all the work and tuning on the 2.0 to make more power. sounds like you know good people and have this well researched. bigger displacement i assume means less revs which is always better for reliability and heat anyway.
a 2.5 is a nice sized 4 cylinder...in a car of your weight i bet it would scoot hard.
Thankfully there is plenty of documentation, info on the Miata forums, and plenty of vendors that do 2.5 swaps; it's so common due to the 2.0 not making power unless you do internal engine work. I'm happy that someone just decided to initially attempt the swap and found it's literally a direct swap. Motor mounts line up and all... ECU is plug and play. Then again, I can't say I'm too surprised as Mazda loved to try to re-use things 2005-2012 time frame.
Really looking forward to when everything is done to see what this little car will do but really not looking forward to how much more money this thing needs to be competitive. Still should be cheaper than building an equivalent TT5/ST5 S2K though
In no particular order:
- 2.5 swap + mild Moto-East cams to get into the correct power range of 170-175whp peak
a) Hoping to keep the exhaust the way it sits, if not I'll move to 1.8 header, catless midpipe, and race single
b) Singular hood vents (free aero and help keep temps down)
c) Drop brackets if I can keep the 1.6 header (lower engine = lower center of gravity + I can run a strut tower brace if I drop the engine; too cheap to not do. 1.8 header is too big and won't fit with the drop brackets)
d) Full stiff motor mounts to tickle the peen and get me ready when I'm waiting to go out on track
- Euro 3.73 FD swap (pinion) + OS Giken at the same time
a) Due to the lower redline and flatter power curve/larger torque curve, this will help the car a lot - BMSPEC front splitter, BMSPEC rear wang, rear bumper cut
- TDR Super Cool Kit with lighter lithium battery
a) Help keep temps down - 225 Hoosiers + 12kg spring rate swap from 10kg at the same time
- Pull interior stuff for less weight
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - Evan - 08-17-2018
Do the skyactiv motors drop in? They put them in the last generation mazda3.
That would get you straight to 180 with no additional work needed.
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - rherold9 - 08-17-2018
Nah, I wish or I would
(08-17-2018, 09:58 AM)Evan Wrote: Do the skyactiv motors drop in? They put them in the last generation mazda3.
That would get you straight to 180 with no additional work needed.
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RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - rherold9 - 08-20-2018
Here is a nice tasty dyno graph with a 2.5 swap, longtube headers, and tune that I asked from somebody on the forums. That torque..... My goal would be higher rpm peak hp so hopefully the cams will help with that vs the torque-iness of longtube headers.
![[Image: 3K4j8BL.png]](https://i.imgur.com/3K4j8BL.png)
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - V1GiLaNtE - 08-20-2018
It's only money right?
![[Image: 2539433-2642583531-24674.gif]](https://thelifeofjwo.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/2539433-2642583531-24674.gif)
RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - rherold9 - 08-20-2018
(08-20-2018, 10:28 AM)V1GiLaNtE Wrote: It's only money right?So you're saying ls swap it?
LS sWaPs OnLY cOsT 5k
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RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - rherold9 - 08-23-2018
Cabell and I went to town and removed the soft top. Didn't believe the soft top weighed in the 40 pound range like everyone said but it indeed does. Power tools were whipped out to grind off a spot weld the used to hold a bolt in on the top. Bolt was needed to be removed because it held some pieces. They mount the seat belts and also the hard top brackets use bolt holes on these two pieces.
![[Image: 46XCK9Z.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/46XCK9Z.jpg)
Next we decided to start tackling the transponder. It's a direct power and I wanted it easily accessible vs putting it more forward behind the bumper which would mean having to remove the bumper if there is an issue with it. Found a decent spot after taking the wheel off. This spot should be accessible just by turning the wheel as well while it's on the ground if I don't want to jack the car up! Eventually once I get a splitter and remove the plastic undertray I'll be making some metal brackets or something to make sure it's secure. This will do for now though.
![[Image: yUuJvTI.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/yUuJvTI.jpg)
Wiring was run through engine bay, fed through the top of the fender down to the door, and then attached to the Race Key mounted right by the fuse box near the floorboard. We have not wired it all up yet as it was getting late but it is all mocked up for today's completion. We are using add a circuit fuse to get power. Max power draw of the transponder + Race Key is 8A (4 each) together so going to pick up a 7.5A fuse. We picked the ACC fuse to use for the power as it's on only when the car is in ACC.
Hopefully it's a quick job to finish the wiring as I'm going to be trying to load everything tonight so I can just drive to work tomorrow with the trailer!
Really? Another Miata thread.... - Sully - 08-23-2018
Feel like that's close on the fuse. Might need to go ten. 7.5 might blow constantly
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RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - rherold9 - 08-23-2018
(08-23-2018, 03:07 PM)Sully Wrote: Feel like that's close on the fuse. Might need to go ten. 7.5 might blow constantlyI said the same thing at first. But the point is so they component doesn't overdraw and damage itself vs just popping the fuse. I said 10A at first then I felt like 8A was good but Cabell insisted on 7.5
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Edit: I just called MyLaps and they stated to use 2 Amp fuse as their USB Cable draws 2 Amps max. So, that's what we going to do!
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RE: Really? Another Miata thread.... - Evan - 08-23-2018
Did you have a non-subscription transponder before?