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+--- Thread: The MM Network (/showthread.php?tid=11439)
The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 01-27-2018
It all depends on the process. If I had applied and it wasn't part of a set process like campus recruiting, I might find a way to follow up.
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RE: The MM Network - .RJ - 01-27-2018
(01-27-2018, 11:12 AM)Sully Wrote: Yea I understand it but I have people telling me I'm not getting interviews because I don't follow up with applications put in and not showing the companies my level of interest. Basically just confirming that you follow up after being contacted at least once and not before.
If you're applying to large companies, then its pretty normal to not get any contact back, I wouldnt sweat it. What is useful though is to track someone down that works there in HR/Recruiting through linkedin that you might share a connection with and that can move things along.
If its a smaller company, you can get your name further up the queue by just following up - it doesnt hurt.
A lot of job postings are either written for a specific person to move into, either from inside or outside the company or are filled by the time you see it and its not taken down. So if you put out 50 applications and get 5-10 calls back you're doing fine. Dont sweat it.
RE: The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 01-28-2018
How much is okay to ask for in a raise after your first year?
I'm paid fairly well for my age, but I wouldn't say it's anything crazy for the role/responsibilities I have. My performance review, and subsequent raise will be coming in a month or so and I'm eager to see how much I can improve my situation. I'm not trying to be greedy, and I know I'm young, but I'm hungry and I've been doing my best to make a name for myself and climb the ladder.
Last week, I was awarded a quarterly performance award during our technology company wide for my ownership of an emerging product line we have and how much responsibility I've taken and impact I've made. My manager wrote a very nice and flattering statement about why I was given this and it was signed off by the CTO and the VP of my department, so it's clear they think I'm doing better than any expectations (and they've said this to my face). I'm already training new people, meeting with PMs to discuss the direction to take the product, and I've picked up tasks that no other people at my level have.
The only problem is, my department/role is small and niche (40 people in my department globally in a company of almost 3000), so I have no basis for what the pay should be for what I do. I'm definitely going to wait and see what they offer, but is something like 10-15% unheard of for a software engineer after one year or stellar performance? I don't think I "deserve" anything, but I'm out for what I can get and I think I've been doing extremely well.
RE: The MM Network - WRXtranceformed - 01-28-2018
I can't speak for your company because every company is different, but you don't usually have much leverage/influence over what your performance-based raises are going to look like. Most companies have a pretty defined structure for pay raises and promotions (for people who are already employed anyway, new hire comp is totally different). You're at a pretty small company in the grand scheme of things, but this becomes even more true when you work for a publicly traded company where shareholders are involved. I was able to fight for my employee and get him a 10% or 12% raise (i can't remember) but I had to build a business case as to why and fight over him internally for another team that wanted to make him an offer.
If you're chasing after money in the corporate ladder climb, 9 times out of 10 the best way to do it is to switch companies. And the grass is definitely not always greener on the other side (seen a lot of people do this and regret it). I don't say all of that to discourage you, hopefully they give you a noticeable raise. But a lot of companies generally only give performance raises that keep up with the cost of living, until you get promoted obviously and step into a new pay band.
Just keep doing well and if you want to stick with your current company, start talking with your bosses about what the "next step" will look like because that usually is where the big money jumps are going to be if those opportunities open up at all.
RE: The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 01-28-2018
(01-28-2018, 02:32 PM)WRXtranceformed Wrote: I can't speak for your company because every company is different, but you don't usually have much leverage/influence over what your performance-based raises are going to look like. Most companies have a pretty defined structure for pay raises and promotions (for people who are already employed anyway, new hire comp is totally different). You're at a pretty small company in the grand scheme of things, but this becomes even more true when you work for a publicly traded company where shareholders are involved. I was able to fight for my employee and get him a 10% or 12% raise (i can't remember) but I had to build a business case as to why and fight over him internally for another team that wanted to make him an offer.
If you're chasing after money in the corporate ladder climb, 9 times out of 10 the best way to do it is to switch companies. And the grass is definitely not always greener on the other side (seen a lot of people do this and regret it). I don't say all of that to discourage you, hopefully they give you a noticeable raise. But a lot of companies generally only give performance raises that keep up with the cost of living, until you get promoted obviously and step into a new pay band.
Just keep doing well and if you want to stick with your current company, start talking with your bosses about what the "next step" will look like because that usually is where the big money jumps are going to be if those opportunities open up at all.
Thanks for the information! All of that makes sense. I've been told that moving to another company is the way to get the best pay increases, but I'd rather not tempt fate by leaving a good company. The hours suck and the work is hard, but I can't imagine a place with better growth potential for me and I love my team. I think I'll try to talk to my team lead about this and see how candid he'll be.
RE: The MM Network - .RJ - 01-28-2018
I'll echo what Leebro said - getting raises based on performance reviews is HARD. You gotta fight for it. Its even harder taking a new position in the company, you're likely going to get paid less than an outside hire. Since you're in a 3,000 person company they likely have lots of bullshit for "process" and "rules" and "precedent" and its all bullshit. HR groups exist 99% to protect the company and 1% to advocate for its employees.
I'll get off my rant box now.
Coming out of school you'll be able to move up the pay scale pretty quickly from where you started. You've been there a year, proven yourself, and exceeded expectations. Unfortunately YOU have to decide what kind of pay/merit increase makes sense - whether its a recognition, or you want more pay, or job title, or responsibility - and build your case around that based on the value you delivered to the company, because, it is a business its not a charity for doing nice things.
I'll share a story around this - at my last job, I was underpaid, and I knew this going in - a year on, I got a promotion, took on more responsibility but initially without a raise. I went back a few months later and laid out my case based on both the pay ranges for someone with my experience & job role as well as the additional revenue generated since taking over the work that I was tasked with - a 15% raise was a pittance compared to that, especially when I was growing my line of business at a time the company was losing money overall. I ended up getting that, but you cant just walk in and say "I want a raise I deserve it because reasons".
Good luck. And if you cant get what you're happy with be prepared to look elsewhere, too, unless you feel strongly about the company that you're willing to play the long game with them and build a career - but be warned that most companies wont have any loyalty toward you in the long run.
The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 01-28-2018
Thanks RJ. Sounds like really great advice. On the loyalty thing, I'm trying to broaden my skills and learn as much as possible so I'm marketable if the time ever comes. The nature of my position leads to my knowledge being company specific so I'm focusing on bettering myself in a general sense, which I think has helped lead to my success so far. I've heard too many horror stories for you guys and others about situations they felt safe in and then had the rug pulled out from under them.
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RE: The MM Network - Apoc - 01-28-2018
They got it all covered.
The one thing I will say is after working for four other companies, I took a pay and title cut to work for Amazon. Last year, I made 246% of what I made in my first year at Amazon. They were separated by five years. Don't be afraid to move, but also don't fear the long game when you know you're in the right spot.
RE: The MM Network - HAULN-SS - 01-28-2018
Are you actually doing software development? I thought you were an IT guy? Anyway - you should think 10-12% as a minimum raise your first 3 years, unless you think you really did a bang-up job getting a great salary out of school.
Just as a personal example(from a software engineer), I got a 10% raise my first year, 6 months later asked for a promotion for another 9%, a 12% on the 2nd year, moved to a new job within the company a year later for another 10%, and then my first year that they gave me a COLA increase of about 4% based on "the economy" I said I'm out, and got a new job at +25% (This is all based on always getting the top rating on whatever performance metrics were being offered at the time, ymmv)
The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 01-28-2018
I'm not a developer in the sense of writing code for the product we sell, but I do internal development, debug our code after it's in production (Sort of like a QA but for code in prod), do some internal data analytics, data monitoring, database upkeep, occasionally do custom data manipulation for large clients, and I serve as a technical consultant to our Client Success Consultants. I work between Developers and Consultants and while I need to know our infrastructure related to our software, I don't do anything IT related.
That's why I say my role is niche. I look at C# and Java all day, but I don't write any of it. So I can't transition to a Dev role, nor do I want to. I want to build my technical knowledge before I transition to a more functional/managerial role. I feel like being a very technically savvy person who also has soft skills will make me very marketable and put me in a good place to be successful. This position is good for that since I work on every product and platform we have.
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RE: The MM Network - .RJ - 01-28-2018
(01-28-2018, 09:08 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: debug our code after it's in production
![[Image: 69284009.jpg]](https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/69284009.jpg)
Fucking A i want to go back to a work environment where production environments arent so damn sensitive and you can just throw shit out there.
The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 01-28-2018
Dev Ops is technically what we would be called, I guess, but that doesn't really seem right to me.
Also, did I mention that I know how to be on Call some weekends? Part of why I'm trying to get a raise. This was never discussed when I started.
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RE: The MM Network - .RJ - 01-28-2018
(01-28-2018, 09:25 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: This was never discussed when I started.
You're young, so, get used to dealing with stuff like that. They assume since you dont have a wife and kids you have nothing better to do.
RE: The MM Network - Senor_Taylor - 01-28-2018
(01-28-2018, 09:31 PM).RJ Wrote:(01-28-2018, 09:25 PM)Senor_Taylor Wrote: This was never discussed when I started.
You're young, so, get used to dealing with stuff like that. They assume since you dont have a wife and kids you have nothing better to do.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not really upset about it. Sure it sucks, but that's life. I'm grateful every day that I'm a 22 year old making more than all of my immediate family combined. I'm just trying to keep my best interests in mind and not forget this world won't just give you things. You need to go out and get them.
Sure I had to respond to some issue at 9PM on friday, but I got off 3 hours early on Friday... and only spent 40 minutes in the garage trying to get the E30 to start.
RE: The MM Network - .RJ - 01-28-2018
It's a give and take. You'll put up with a lot of crap now to gain experience and make connections so down the road you can choose what crap you want to put up with.
RE: The MM Network - D_Eclipse9916 - 01-29-2018
Stay hungry my friend. One of my best friends who used to cheat off me in class, and wasn't very motivated; is now kicking ass because of his push. He just push push push pushes and am blown away at his success. Asking for more shows drive (as long as you are corresponding it with a fairly realistic view of your own work).
But for the most part remember the trade off of work vs play. They are mutually exclusive, despite the 1 in 100,000 that everyone sees and thinks they can get away with too.
RE: The MM Network - ScottyB - 01-29-2018
.RJ Wrote:It's a give and take. You'll put up with a lot of crap now to gain experience and make connections so down the road you can choose what crap you want to put up with.
this could be the only sentence on the only page in a book called "Your First Job Out of College; What to Expect and How To Prepare" and it would be fine to hand out to every graduate. all you need to know, and pretty much mirrors the first 5 years of my career experience.
D_Eclipse9916 Wrote:push push push
good advice for life in general. "life-long learning" or whatever they call it is just a fancy way of saying keep striving to learn things and expand your abilities. obviously all work and no play makes Taylor a dull boy and what not, everything in moderation.
RE: The MM Network - Jake - 01-29-2018
I don't have much to add as everyone else has really covered it. Dealing with some longer hours and occasional weekend crap is fine on occasion, I think most of us get that regardless of company/role. That said, do not let yourself end up thinking that's normal and that you are okay with it - if long hours become the norm, then the company doesn't have enough resources to properly do the jobs at hand, or you're not working efficiently (that's the general thought, at least).
RE: The MM Network - .RJ - 01-29-2018
(01-29-2018, 04:41 PM)Jake Wrote: if long hours become the norm, then the company doesn't have enough resources to properly do the jobs at hand, or you're not working efficiently (that's the general thought, at least).
Companies will generally be respectful of you saying "no" or "later" to things. If you have interests outside of the office, that will motivate you to be more effective with your time, get your shit done and GTFO. Most times when you're asked to do something and it pushes you into long/late hours the people asking for it arent aware of that, or, the employee interprets that as "I need to get it done now". Not really healthy, long term. But sometimes shit hits the fan and you're at work late, dealwithit.gif
Dont ever equate time in office with your output. You'll always be judged on the latter, and if you're getting it done and leaving at 4:30 then good on you.
RE: The MM Network - Apoc - 01-29-2018
My first manager at Amazon told me I need to up my work from 50 hours to 60. I told him I was already doing 5x10 and wasn't willing to work longer hours. He asked me if I could eek out a few more hours on nights and weekends. I said I was willing to do whatever the job required in crunch time, but not work nights and weekends as a way of life. He pressed me on it; I told him I moved here to build a life with my wife, not work all the time. He then told me if that was true, I needed to find a way to do 60 hours of work in 50 hours. I kinda agreed, but not really. He eventually transferred out, and I took his job. After four different jobs with Amazon, he left for career development reasons. So, yeah, grinding it out non-stop doesn't always pay off.