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+--- Thread: Das Race: My '97 M3/4/5 (/showthread.php?tid=10430)
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Maengelito - 07-31-2014
Jake Wrote:Jake Wrote:The brakes on the M3 are doing something goofy and I need to figure it out ASAP. Under braking I get a *thump thump thump* that appears to be coming from the rear wheel(s). I can kind of feel the thump in the pedal. Thinking it may be a severely warped rotor. Might take the brakes apart tonight - I want to drive this car to Bimmerfest East in two weeks so time is of the essence.
It wasn't a rear rotor... turns out I cracked the front right at VIR, as tribute to Mr. Maeng:
Local parts stores wanted $50 for one rotor, I got two from Rock Auto for $70 shipped. Put both of them on last night (I figured, why not do both and keep the good "old" one as a spare) and cleaned the windows in preparation for Bimmerfest. The car is going to stay dirty and bug-splattered, because I don't really care about cleaning up a track car for a car show. :thumbup:
![[Image: ixSzMC1.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/ixSzMC1.jpg)
I'm honored to pass the torch on to you Jake.
And I've bought so many rotors from rock auto. I don't know how its cost effective for them to ship 25 lbs of cast iron at a time to my house for $70 but I'll take it.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Sully - 07-31-2014
Imagine if Rock Auto got on Amazon somehow. I would order all my rotors even if they cost more just so I could use prime for 200 lbs worth of rotors
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Senor_Taylor - 07-31-2014
...and have them delivered by a drone!
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Maengelito - 08-01-2014
Sully Wrote:Imagine if Rock Auto got on Amazon somehow. I would order all my rotors even if they cost more just so I could use prime for 200 lbs worth of rotors
I already checked to see if I could get S2000 front rotors via Subscribe and Save. I can't.
Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - D_Eclipse9916 - 08-01-2014
You guys gotta stop using your brakes.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Jake - 08-18-2014
Post-Summit Point Update - 150,800 miles
Had a great weekend overall! Got the car on new tires (the "v2" of Hankook R-S3's) which delivered an impressive amount of grip. I have never driven my M3 on good, non-heat-cycled tires before this weekend and the difference in grip and confidence was pretty amazing. It felt lighter on its feet and far more tossable. Also replaced my rear brake pads so they now match the fronts (PFC.08's) - I was on some crappy Carbotechs in the rear and the car would just squirm under heavy braking as the front pads had to do most of the work. Now it just sort of hunkers down and stops.
So, with those tweaks, how were things? Well, they were better although I'm still not "fast" compared to most others in my class. I did beat out one or two guys - had a great battle both days with this guy in an RX-8, stayed ahead of him by about half a second each day. The fastest in our class ran a 1:28 (he's at minimum race weight, has aero and Hoosier R6 tires) and I managed a 1:31 in warm-ups (which sadly doesn't count) and a 1:32 in a timed session. Not all bad but I would love to get to 1:30.
I had a friend come out for his first-ever HPDE weekend as well. He's got an E36 M3 and a 997-era Porsche 911 (I think it's a 2008) and brought the P-car as he's selling it in a few weeks and wanted to track it for funsies. We were chatting on Sunday morning about how his weekend was going, what he was learning, and so on, and he goes "yeah you can take it out if you want." So I'm thinking he means "for a pace lap" at what, 55 mph... but then he follows with "so just pick a session and take it, can I ride with you?"
I hadn't driven any Porsche, ever. So we're sitting on grid and I'm asking him the basics so I have half a clue about this car... what kind of tires, where are you braking at various points, etc. and I end the conversation (as grid yells out "1 minute") with "and what kind of power do these things make, anyway?" Turns out the previous owner did a bunch of work to his car and it's pushing 700-something hp to the wheels. Stock, they make 470hp at the motor. So, my eyes got a little bigger and I suddenly realized I was about to go "play" with wayyy more than I expected.
![[Image: 10403202_10154463305300640_4938008367216653484_n.jpg]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t1.0-9/10403202_10154463305300640_4938008367216653484_n.jpg)
I can do ~122 mph in the M3 by the end of the front straight at Summit. This 911 was able to do 155 into the 300-foot braking marker. It's AWD and it plows a little bit but the car is very balanced. What struck me is how easy it was to drive so supremely fast. I was carrying a lot of speed through the corners, the brakes held up lap after lap, and aside from the solid shove you got every time you prodded the skinny pedal, it wasn't "intimidating" in the least. It was just very very quick everywhere.
The M3 is leaking a bit of coolant, I think. It's drinking it and you can smell a bit of "burning coolant" stench occasionally. Haven't had time to look at where it's coming from, so that's a "before October event" thing to do. It's not a very quick leak and the oil looks clean so I'm not concerned.
Also, those rear ball joints need to get done ASAP. Too much wubwubwub noise going on in the back of the car.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Jake - 09-01-2014
Mileage: 150,900 - ONE YEAR Update
Yesterday (Sunday) marked one year of ownership. I had saved the For Sale post on Bimmerforums, so I figured I'd pull up some photos from that ad and see how far the car has come in one year.
From Pierce (the P.O.) in his ad:
Pierce Wrote:Since then, I have changed the oil every 3-4k miles and I have NEVER tracked or autocrossed this car. Most of the miles are from driving to and from Winston Salem, NC.
Clearly, the "never tracked or autocrossed" problem was addressed almost immediately.
I added 7,000 miles to the car, removed ~150 lbs of weight (more to come this year), and spun so many damn wrenches. My friend Alex thought it'd be fun to see how many of those 7k miles were on track, so I did some math at work during a "bored" moment. Take away the drives to VIR, Summit, NJMP, JMU and Bimmerfest... take away another 1k for drives to RRT and around town otherwise... and you end up with ~2,600 track miles. Pretty wild when you consider the tracks I've taken it on are 2-3 miles in length.
She used to be pretty:
![[Image: s8H1vpL.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/s8H1vpL.jpg)
![[Image: 0Z7WYD7.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/0Z7WYD7.jpg)
![[Image: DHeMSc6.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/DHeMSc6.jpg)
Thankfully, now she's functional instead. No rust, good suspension, good tires, halfway-decent safety gear, and a semi-loose nut behind the wheel. No plans to sell 'er anytime soon. I loved that Miata as a street car, but this M3 is way more fun on track.
She wouldn't be a real BMW without celebrating her one-year anniversary as a track car with some leaks... this time, coolant. I replaced a lot of the system a few months ago, but there are some hoses that I ignored. And now it's biting me in the ass.
I'm pretty sure the hose I need to replace immediately is the one that runs from the expansion tank to the "heater return pipe." The older M50/S50 cars had a rubber heater return octopus-hose thing. Mine is metal, thankfully. The hose I need is #8 here:
![[Image: 5.png]](http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/d/f/5.png)
The leak appears to be spraying on the power steering reservoir, driver's lower control arm, and subframe. I took off the intake and throttle body last night and poked around, everywhere else looks 100% dry. That hose (#8) had a teeny bit of dampness showing, and some dried crusty white residue (which indicates coolant). So, given its location and where the wetness is... I'm inclined to think there's a pinhole leak that shows up under pressure. The car dumped half of the expansion tank in a day of driving around town on Saturday - probably 60 miles. So, she's parked until that hose shows up.
Here, have a photo of the ol' girl hauling through T10 at Summit Point last month:
![[Image: Rl1UhYF.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/Rl1UhYF.jpg)
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - ScottyB - 09-01-2014
hellafunctional bro!
pretty cool to see that track mileage. seems a whole lot of that happened in the mid-year heat too!
hope the hose isn't too big a PITA, can you reach it easily or does everything around it have to get peeled away?
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - *insertusernamehere* - 09-01-2014
ScottyB Wrote:can you reach it easily or does everything around it have to get peeled away?
Define easily? haha. You could reach it by sticking your hand down in there and just struggle bus is. You could jack it up and work from under easier. Or you can pull everything out and try and put it all back in as one piece but even that is harder than it sounds, especially if your radiator is not stock.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Jake - 09-02-2014
ScottyB Wrote:hope the hose isn't too big a PITA, can you reach it easily or does everything around it have to get peeled away?
I might be able to lift the expansion tank up a bit, disconnect it (while dumping coolant all over my face, I'm sure) and snake the hose out. It runs through the bottom of the fan shroud (keeps it protected from road debris) but should not be hard to pull out. And the other end, where it plugs in near the manifold, is exposed now that I've got the intake and TB removed.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Jake - 09-08-2014
What started out as "oh, let me just replace this one cooling hose" on Saturday turned into 10 hours of fun under the hood.
So I was replacing hose #8 in this diagram:
Replacing that hose does not require removing anything aside from the expansion tank. But, while I was doing that, DJ was poking around and goes "those two lines running through the throttle body are kinda bulging, are you suuuuure you don't want to address those while you're in here?"
Those hoses are #13 and 14, and only serve to prevent the throttle plate on the TB from icing over in super cold weather. Not needed. So... the intake manifold was removed. The coolant lines were pulled. I just used a piece of hose and looped one line to the other.
While we had the manifold off, DJ helped me remove the Secondary Air Pump. The SAP's sole purpose is to inject air into the exhaust manifold for the first 60-90 seconds of completely cold startup, to help reduce emissions. Well, effthat. Got rid of a sensor, a few vacuum lines, and a HUGE pump. Had a couple of friends hanging out with us, and I tasked one of them with removing the washer fluid tank. It's never worked anyway, so... weight reduction.
Look, wide open spaces!
![[Image: BLXaTMX.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/BLXaTMX.jpg)
Removal of the SAP will throw a few codes and light up the CEL. My buddy Kyle has the software and cable to re-program the car's DME, so he came over last night and reprogrammed a few things. The car now ignores the lack of SAP, ignores the two rear-most O2 sensors, ignores the charcoal canister in the trunk (I can remove this for more weight loss!) and no longer requires the "EWS" coded ignition key to start. Which means getting a second key made will be $Cheaper.
Headliner was sagging (the whole board, not just the fabric) so I pulled that out. It's a remarkably fast process when you don't care how the board comes out of the car. Found a cool build sticker on the back of the headliner board:
![[Image: m4aW5Hd.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/m4aW5Hd.jpg)
I want to know what Funkin means, and why my car doesn't have it.
At this point, DJ was still rarin' to keep working on things (he had been cleaning the garage and working on various projects, too) and set about replacing the one busted rear balljoint on the LS1 M3. We were going to replace all 4 on my car as well, but I had gone out the night before and was doing all of the above on 4 hours of sleep. So, I bailed. Still gotta do those, ideally soon.
Oh, and it rained.
![[Image: DNZXSEW.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/DNZXSEW.jpg)
In all, a great, productive Saturday. I need to do those balljoints and I think the M3's battery is just about done living on this planet as it keeps dying from sitting for a few days at a time. Big thanks to DJ and Joey for helping out with this stuff - the company (and beer) did wonders for my motivation.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Kaan - 09-08-2014
should we compare pics of the nasty ass headliner? we removed the integras yesterday (i instantly needed another shower).
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Jake - 09-08-2014
Kaan Wrote:should we compare pics of the nasty ass headliner? we removed the integras yesterday (i instantly needed another shower).
Mine was actually very clean, but the whole board was sagging in the back so you couldn't see out the rear window when you drove the car.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - D_Eclipse9916 - 09-08-2014
Was fun, it has been a long time where I wasn't in a hurry to get anything done and I could just play around in the garage all day on Saturday.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Kaan - 09-08-2014
I'll have to post pics on the integra thread... that poor sunroof was a hack job at best. mine came out in a BILLION pieces... but i was trying to be clean about it.
you dont have funkin but you haz makup! cover up those pores and outline those lips!
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Jake - 09-22-2014
Anyone who's ridden in this car has experienced the awesomeness that is a massively-padded, old-as-dirt six-point Teamtech harness. Thankfully, that is no more.
Got a brand-new G-Force harness on the driver's side and moved the older G-Force harness to the passenger side. Hooray, comfort (and safety)!
![[Image: aeo7g7v.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/aeo7g7v.jpg)
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Jake - 10-06-2014
Post-VIR Update: 151,300 miles
Great, great time at VIR this weekend!! The car held together and performed well, as did I. Weather was perfect.
The new tires (v2 of the Hankook RS3) are supremely grippy and predictable. I think I'm learning to "slide" the car a bit better - as in, taking some of the harder turns more on that ragged edge of control.
Some notes from my July VIR weekend - best time that weekend was about a 2:27.5 or so:
Jake, back in July Wrote:• I'm able to exit T1 and carry enough speed that I need 4th gear between T1 and T2. That's a good thing.
• Still trying to nail my line through T3. It's a corner that demands 3rd gear and you can either drop time or waste it based on gear choice and courage.
• Lower esses need a bit of work re: apexes but not all bad.
• Able to enter the uphill esses with my foot buried in the carpet in 4th. I had a few laps where I took the entire hill with my foot buried, and a few laps where I lifted ever so slightly. Both worked okay but legitimate full throttle is the way to go. And don't lift until you crest the hill.
• I understand Oak Tree in theory and usually in practice. Two part turn.
• Braking at the end of the back straightaway is currently a downfall, I'm doing it too early. I tried braking later a few times and it worked until it didn't (video below) and then I mowed the lawn between T14 and T15.
• Could use a liiiiittle bit more throttle and/or less brakes for the T16/T17 chunk onto the front straight. But not much.
Well, I'm happy to report that I managed to fix a lot of these little problems and shave massive chunks of time off - ran several laps at 2:23.xx which made me supremely happy
There is some time left on the table even at a 2:23 - I can brake harder/later for a few spots. I had a couple instances where I'd brake and realize I was slowed down too quickly and thus, ready for turn-in before the turn was even there. Oops.My buddy Kyle re-tuned the car and bumped power ever so slightly (he says about 10 hp at the crank), but the biggest help was raising the rev limiter. It now limits somewhere north of 7k (previously it'd bump fuel cut at like 6,700) which means I can wait to shift to 4th until I'm through some turns. Was a huge help at both T1 and T17 this weekend.
One (or more?) of these laps is a 2:23.xx. Sunday morning was a great session, save for the "ohshit it's foggy and where's the track" first lap.
[youtube]-ryCsLdUhn4[/youtube]
I'm taking the damn car to RRT for the rear balljoints. They're making a TON of noise and I need to address them, but I'm too lazy/un-motivated to do it myself.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - BLINGMW - 10-06-2014
Jake Wrote:• Still trying to nail my line through T3. It's a corner that demands 3rd gear and you can either drop time or waste it based on gear choice and courage.The only thing I notice there is that it appears you're mid-track when you enter and could be using more of the pavement if you started further right. Straighten it out like you intend to head off-track right, brake before you do and trail brake into 3, and you might find a lot more speed. Of course, I've gone off there a few times while attempting this... so... YMMV :dunno:
Maybe you mentioned it before, but what's up with the camera mount? Video and sound are pretty jittery.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Jake - 10-06-2014
BLINGMW Wrote:Jake Wrote:• Still trying to nail my line through T3. It's a corner that demands 3rd gear and you can either drop time or waste it based on gear choice and courage.The only thing I notice there is that it appears you're mid-track when you enter and could be using more of the pavement if you started further right. Straighten it out like you intend to head off-track right, brake before you do and trail brake into 3, and you might find a lot more speed. Of course, I've gone off there a few times while attempting this... so... YMMV :dunno:
Maybe you mentioned it before, but what's up with the camera mount? Video and sound are pretty jittery.
Yeah, T3 is still a learning experience. Third gear is the gear to have there, but my line needs work. I had a few laps (not shown here) where I did sort of as you suggest, and it worked. Just gotta make it consistent.
The under-hood microphone's battery was dead, so the sound is from the cabin straight off the GoPro mic. And the mount was a bit loose. Would have fixed it but I was running around like a madman on both Saturday and Sunday, so I just let it go.
Re: Das Pace: My '97 M3/4/5 - Jake - 10-14-2014
Mileage: 151,326
Got the car back from RRT - the rate they gave me to replace the four rear balljoints was too good to pass up, especially given my lack of motivation to do it myself. It's a good idea to re-align the car after that work (and it hadn't been done in about a year) so they aligned it as well.
The rear camber and toe were all sorts of funky before the work (-1.0* camber left / -1.7* camber right ... 0.05* toe left / 0.14* toe right) and now everything lines up much nicer. Curious how much I will feel it at Summit Point in a few weeks.
Alignment specs, for reference (and so at least one person can tell me I'm wrong):
Front
Camber: -3.8*
Caster: 5.5*
Toe: -0.01*
Rear
Camber: -1.8*
Toe: 0.20*