+- Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org)
+-- Forum: Madison Motorsports (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Lounge (https://forum.mmsports.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Thread: VPILF! (/showthread.php?tid=7592)
- .RJ - 09-04-2008
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Is a flat tax alright?
Yes. I forget the figures floating around, but its something to the effect of the top 10% of earners pay 90% of the tax burden. We dont need to make this worse, IMO.
In addition to Obama's plan for increasing corporate taxes and capital gains taxes... I just do not agree with what he proposes to do because that will hit everyone.
- Evan - 09-04-2008
no jack, it encourages risk taking. and it rewards it.
it also happens to be what this whole "capitalism" thing is based on.
- G.Irish - 09-04-2008
Apoc Wrote:*sigh* Fair tax...JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Do you think it's fair that everyone pay the same %? Is a flat tax alright?
Yes... rich people still pay WAY more in raw dollars anyway.
Although I think a usage tax would be a much better system. Rich folk would still pay an inordinate amount more in percentage 'cause they have more disposable income but it's not forced charity.
- Apoc - 09-04-2008
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Doesn't that encourage hording? Shit, that's what I'd do.
What good does hoarding get you? I mean why make $3m/year if you aren't going to spend it... cause it feels good?
- Ole - 09-04-2008
Apoc Wrote:JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Doesn't that encourage hording? Shit, that's what I'd do.
I mean why make $3m/year if you aren't going to spend it... cause it feels good?
Because I can do better things for those that deserve help through charities and I can take care of my family better than some Gov't agency.
- G.Irish - 09-04-2008
Man I guess me and Chan are the only ones who've talked about this:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.fairtax.org">http://www.fairtax.org</a><!-- m -->
Basically it abolishes the income tax and gets rid of all of the tax loopholes and red tape. Instead you have a high national sales tax. If you don't buy anything, you don't pay taxes. Simple. If you are a drug dealer, pimp, mafioso, whatever, you still pay taxes. Poorest people get a small tax break but that's it.
No more arguing about who pays their fair share. You buy, you pay.
- JackoliciousLegs - 09-04-2008
That's just it. How much money have you given to charity this year? How much have you donated to public education? Have you donated to Planned Parenthood? Why not? What about Focus on the Family? Why not? What about people that can't take care of their families. Do we not all collectively benefit by raising the overall standard of living? Does capitalism require a huge gap between upper and lower classes?
- .RJ - 09-04-2008
Jack what does donations and standard of living have to do with this, other than nothing to do with how the fed generates its tax revenue?
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:Does capitalism require a huge gap between upper and lower classes?
![[Image: Bell%20Curve.jpg]](http://www.pollster.com/Bell%20Curve.jpg)
- Ole - 09-04-2008
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:That's just it. How much money have you given to charity this year? How much have you donated to public education? Have you donated to Planned Parenthood? Why not? What about Focus on the Family? Why not? What about people that can't take care of their families. Do we not all collectively benefit by raising the overall standard of living? Does capitalism require a huge gap between upper and lower classes?
If you want to really see what I donate and raise for charity I will be more than happy to show you. Just a hint, it is probably more than most of you on here make a year.
Last year we (my wife and I) raised over 75K for the ALS association. Wrote checks for various Christian organizations of over 10k. I will never give any of my money to Planned Parenthood. We gave over 3k to No. Va. Family Services in addition to all the clothing, household goods and other items I donated to No. Va Family Services EVRY YEAR! (most new). How about you? You asked, I answered. Care to see my tax return for proof!?
This in addition to paying quarterly taxes on my company's income and writing an additional 18k check to the Gov't because I had a great 4th quarter.
- G.Irish - 09-04-2008
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:That's just it. How much money have you given to charity this year? How much have you donated to public education? Have you donated to Planned Parenthood? Why not? What about Focus on the Family? Why not? What about people that can't take care of their families. Do we not all collectively benefit by raising the overall standard of living? Does capitalism require a huge gap between upper and lower classes?You're opening up a lot of arguments along a lot of lines there. Clearly there are some government services that contribute to the overall health and wealth of the nation like education. But when you talk about 'people who can't take care of their families' you're starting to get into equality of ends. So you're basically saying no matter what value you contributed you will get the same as the guy who contributed little or no value.
If someone has a family that is too big for their job to support whose fault is that? Not saying children should have to suffer in that case but at the same time the government should not be enabling people to exceed their means.
What you want ideally is equality of opportunity. People who want to work their way with an education or come up with a genius business idea or whatever should be able to move upwards if they're good enough. What you don't want is a crippling tax structure that makes it difficult for anyone to make the climb, or a broken education system, or a country so weak in skilled industries that everyone is stuck doing menial jobs.
There are a lot of factors that have to be balanced when talking about what the government should be spending money on and conversely how high taxes should be. It's not a simple, "RAISE TAXES!" or "LOWER TAXES!" argument like politics in this country likes to reduce things to.
Personally I think both parties have their own form of the same specious populism. Republicans always say they are going to lower taxes but when they don't lower spending we end up with huge deficits like the one we have now. We've spent somewhere around $1 trillion on this phony war and we are going to have to pay for it sooner or later. Oh, but we're supposed to believe we can keep lowering taxes and pay for our debt. All of this spending into a black hole is what has turned the American dollar into the American peso.
Democrats on the other hand want to level the playing field or provide a free lunch for everybody. Sounds great but as Ginger would say it is a moral hazard to enable people to not get off their asses. And you can only turn the screws on rich people so much before the pressure starts getting shifted elsewhere. By not letting the market work sometimes you end up making the problem worse than it would have been if the market had been allowed to correct itself.
Just like a lot of things with this false dichotomy of the two parties you are gonna get screwed one way or another. It's just a matter of degrees.
- Ole - 09-04-2008
I would rather my money go to someone that tries to better themselves than this crap!
![[Image: medium_121907_housing1.jpg]](http://blog.nola.com/updates/2007/12/medium_121907_housing1.jpg)
A New Orleans resident, Sharon Jasper, had the gall to sit in her taxpayer subsidized home with a large screen tv and hardwood floors and whine that it's "pitiful" what the rest of us taxpayers are giving her for free. If anyone knows Ms. Jasper, I hope they tell her how sorry us people who work for a living are that she doesn't enjoy as many luxuries as she might otherwise like courtesy of those of us who choose to work for a living and pay taxes and that we hope she can upgrade to a better free government handout that she finds less pitiful real soon.
Go ahead and check this on snopes.com <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/jasper.asp">http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/jasper.asp</a><!-- m --> I did not include the BS part of the story, just the facts. Slowly leaking sink my ass!
- Apoc - 09-04-2008
JackoliciousLegs Wrote:That's just it. How much money have you given to charity this year?
Less than I would if the government didn't take the cost of a really nice car from me every year.
Forced charity is not America, it's socialism.
- NTIman - 09-04-2008
Wow, this is the first political thread on here thats worth reading, if you ask me.
You guys have brought up a lot of great points and different ways to look at things.
- Ole - 09-04-2008
So much so you had to say it twice......
- NTIman - 09-04-2008
LOL, My wonderful Directway internet doesn't work too amazing.
- HAULN-SS - 09-04-2008
That's good - for a second there, I thought the fun was about to be banned again
- NTIman - 09-04-2008
BTW, I'm a big fan of the Fair Tax
- Goodspeed - 09-05-2008
I lost touch with this thread pages ago, but McCain's wife is into drifting
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64323_mccain_news
That is all.
- Mike - 09-05-2008
she called it "drift racing." she doesn't know shit about the "sport."
- stevegula - 09-05-2008
neither do I, but that's because it's gay.